A few questions about this practice

[Snowe]

Aha, I feel like a fool now, because of course, the mood has passed hours ago. As I knew it would. Thanks so much for all your helpful and kind words, tomorrow I will get back to sitting, which I had been neglecting in this depression. But it is nice to try to actively turn off all these worries and thoughts, so tomorrow I will get up and do it. I was also raised Christian and I think that is why I struggle, worrying for my soul and what not. I've had pastors tell me that it doesn't matter if you are a good person, or like, in another country and never raised with the christian god, he would still send you to hell for not believing in something you never heard of, and I was very young so I think these awful words must have left their marks somewhere.

As my fiance tries to tell me, no need to worry about things I'll never get answers to, I should listen to him and others more often. What happens will happen ^^ But today I am alive, and that's good.

And yes, my depression is a giant black pit. This morning I got up, couldn't read, couldn't watch tv, couldn't do anything without thinking "I am incredibly tired with this society" and wanted to wander off into a mountain somewhere and never come out again. And of course my brain gave me a hundred reasons why society sucks, why my life sucks, I'm going no where, I have massive debts from school, things won't get better etc etc... I know the feelings will pass, even as I'm getting more and more upset, I still let myself fall into it for some reason. The thoughts just circle around each other until I either go to sleep or just snap out of it somehow hours later.

Perhaps these are the perfect times to sit?

Sorry I talk so much, no one around my home "gets" me really, so this is all I get to talk to, to try to reason it out.

[Snowe]

Oh, and I'll look into that book, I love reading so I'll pick it up next week.

[Joyo]

Snowe, I so understand what you are talking about. The whole hell doctrine is in many religions and when I found that out I realized that I no longer had to live in fear of hell because there's no was of escaping it and it is simply not true. It's used as a way to control. Mormons have a hell, Muslims beliefs you go to hell for believing Jesus is god, Christians believe you go to hell for believing Jesus is not god. The whole topic is just enough to make your head spin. If you are interested, I've got some good websites and book recommendations that really helped me to let go of this fear.

[Snowe]

Actually, I don't really believe in hell. I stopped a long time ago (ghosts and maybe demons though, well, my eyes have SEEN things o__o;. I know that these ideas are used by "religious" figures to control the population, truly if one is a Christian then I believe they should just read their book and stop letting some man tell them about it. But I guess, if I really think about it, there's always going to be that fear in the back of my mind, because people like you and me were raised this way, and it's hard to escape your "culture". If I had a choice, I'd like to just be a stream of light/music that floats around and can get all mingled up with other streams of light/music! Yes, you could post those websites and books, I will check them out!

I just started watching the "zazen for beginners" video number 6 I think (I watched all of the other ones about Buddhism Basics) and apparently it held the words I should have heard this morning, haha.

Thanks everyone

[Joyo]

Snowe, there is a Christian book called Love Wins by Rob Bell. I am agnostic, so I obviously have different views than he does, but it was still a good read. Another is Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell.

I will warn you, this website goes into some very disturbing things from the inquisition etc. But it does have a good write-up on hell http://www.christianitydisproved.com/hell.html

And if you are really want to go deeper, here's a few more websites

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/jesus.html

http://www.pocm.info/getting_started_pocm.html

[Joyo]

And, Snowe, yes the fear is still in the back of my mind once in awhile. But it does disappear. My in-laws, and probably my parents too, think I"m going to hell because I am a Buddhist. I used to be deeply hurt by this, but now I can laugh it off. I'm not nearly as afraid of death as I used to be.

[YuimaSLC]

Snowe,

As best I know, most Zen Buddhist monasteries here in the West observe a vegetarian diet....some ovo-lacto and others vegan. I've yet to hear of any week-long December sesshin
ending with a robust steak and ribs BBQ.

There is a long tradition of vegetarian cooking in Japan. Some argue that land-animal meat just wasn't available to most people, and the Japanese were incredibly talented about creating cuisines out of foods (including lots of wild plants) they could find or cultivate. And, because of the absence of dairy products, Japanese vegetarianism tends to be vegan.

I'll note a very good, and current cookbook written by Elizabeth Andoh KANSHA, Celebrating Japan's Vegan and Vegetarian Traditions
Also, Mari Fujii The Enlightened Kitchen, Fresh Vegetable Dishes from the Temples of Japan.

and, as it concerns Buddhist ethics...

Philip Kapleau To Cherish All Life A Buddhist Case for Becoming Vegetarian.

Kind regards

Richard

[Jundo]

Snowe,

As best I know, most Zen Buddhist monasteries here in the West observe a vegetarian diet....some ovo-lacto and others vegan. I've yet to hear of any week-long December sesshin
ending with a robust steak and ribs BBQ.

This is so, and there is a wondrous tradition of Shojin Ryori in Japanese Zen temples, some intricate dishes so amazing that I have actually done a double take thinking that some vegetarian creation served during a Japanese Sesshin was meat. I often wondered about eating an imitation that actually tasted like meat, but I suppose it is fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cuisine

Now, whether the priests leaving the retreat in America, Europe, Japan or Korea head for the nearest McDonalds after the retreat is over ... I cannot say.

Here is a thread on Zen and vegetarianism. My own teacher, Nishijima, turned to celibacy late in life, and refrains from alcohol, but will (like many Japanese priests, as well as many Tibetans, Koreans and others) eat meat and fish in moderation. He thinks there are certain proteins and such that can only be had from meat and fish, and that we are naturally meant to eat some meat. However, he is not in any way an expert on the bio-chemistry of vegetarianism, so many vegetarians say his understanding of replacing those proteins with other sources like tofu and such is wrong. In fact, I have passed the information on to him a couple of times. I don't think he will change his view at age 93.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?10183-PRECEPTS-III-To-Refrain-From-Taking-Life&p=87532&viewfull=1#post87532

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8734-Buddha-and-Meat-Eating-%28A-South-Asian-Perspective%29&p=58214&viewfull=1#post58214

Gassho, J

[Risho]

Finding scientific nutritional information without some political agenda can be tricky. But the thing I'm wary about with a non-meat diet is b-12 deficiency

http://chriskresser.com/what-everyone-especially-vegetarians-should-know-about-b12-deficiency

[Joyo]

I've been a vegetarian for 18 years, I'm very healthy and never had a problem with b-12. YOu can get b-12 from dairy products, or nutritional yeast, or a supplement.

[Risho]

Thank you... I've wondered about that. But according to that article you are probably B-12 deficient, which is why you disagree. lol just kidding Funny enough my doctor put me on a B-12 inhalant; I'm on the low spectrum of B-12 levels. I'm not dangerously low but he said he'd like me higher. He said that the body just doesn't absorb it well via digestion through vitamins, which leads me to wonder if eating would really effect it much.. especially if one's body just doesn't absorb it well through digestion anyway.

My wife and I don't really eat a lot of meat, but we do eat some.

Not to put you on the spot, but do you know of a good source for vegetarian recipes?

Gassho,

Risho

[Myosha]

Vegetarian recipes free download via Google will help.


Gassho,
Edward

[Joyo]

Thank you... I've wondered about that. But according to that article you are probably B-12 deficient, which is why you disagree. lol just kidding Funny enough my doctor put me on a B-12 inhalant; I'm on the low spectrum of B-12 levels. I'm not dangerously low but he said he'd like me higher. He said that the body just doesn't absorb it well via digestion through vitamins, which leads me to wonder if eating would really effect it much.. especially if one's body just doesn't absorb it well through digestion anyway.

My wife and I don't really eat a lot of meat, but we do eat some.

Not to put you on the spot, but do you know of a good source for vegetarian recipes?

Gassho,

Risho

What do you mean, I do not have brain fog or memory problems, or premature aging!!

I am on pinterest, I have a board called vegan/vegetarian, where I have posted many of my favourite recipes. If you are on there you can look me up, my name is Treena Davis.

[Mp]

I have was a vegetarian for 25 years and have been a vegan for about 7 years now. For me this lifestyle works, but it is not for everyone. I know Risho mentioned B-12 issues ... I just started taking B-12 supplements last year and the only reason for this was because of my running schedule.

But just like the other thread about posture during Zazen, we have to also work with our bodies and what is best for them.

Gassho
Shingen

[Kokuu]

Not to put you on the spot, but do you know of a good source for vegetarian recipes?

I absolutely love the Complete Tassajara Cookbook. Not just a wonderful source of recipes but contains copious amounts of Zen poetry and wisdom too!

Otherwise the internet is full of vegetarian sites and you can get many cookbooks second hand. Cranks Cookbook is a veggie classic, also Madhur Jaffrey's World Vegetarian.


Gassho
Andy (veggie for 25+ years)