Just a thought

[Mujin]

While just sitting, (not Zazen), enjoying a cigar, a thought occurred to me. Nirvana and samsara are two sides of the same coin. This is because they are both abstracts of the mind. Reality is suchness, thus nothing to look to gain, nothing to look to escape from. All already is. The Reality that is Zazen itself.
Apologies for any ignorance on my part. I just, not only thought it, but "felt" it. Look kindly on my rambling.

Gassho

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

[FNJ]

I personally get bogged down in the issue of language. You can say "samsara" you can say "nirvana" you can say God, Jesus, Redemption, being saved ... But it just assumes so much.

I could have read your paragraph:

"Sometimes you might as well say: While just sitting, (not Gagoo), enjoying a pufpuf, a thought occurred to me. Kalitoma and Hoktua are two sides of the same coin. This is because they are both abstracts of the mind. Reality is Duchess, thus nothing to look to gain, nothing to look to escape from. All already is. The Reality that is Gagoo itself. Apologies for any ignorance on my part. I just, not only thought it, but "felt" it. Look kindly on my rambling."

And if we're just rambling it reminds me of general semantics.

General semantics, developed by Alfred Korzybski in the 1930s, posits that language is an abstraction of reality and not reality itself, "the map is not the territory." Korzybski emphasized that words are abstractions, and we often mistake our linguistic representations for the things themselves. He argued that no two people necessarily mean the same thing when using a word, especially abstract terms like "God," "freedom," or "love," which are prone to misunderstanding due to their lack of clear, shared referents and personal, cultural, or emotional associations. Korzybski warned that language oversimplifies experience and can distort thinking, particularly when we assume fixed meanings. He advocated for increased awareness of how language filters and shapes reality, urging individuals to clarify meanings rather than assume agreement.

There's a lot of assumptions when people are talking about Buddhism. Even to use the word "Enlightenment" one would assume one had some experience of this in order to use the word. Otherwise, what are you even talking about?

It's a friggin miracle you can understand anything I'm saying!


Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

[Mujin]

I personally get bogged down in the issue of language. You can say "samsara" you can say "nirvana" you can say God, Jesus, Redemption, being saved ... But it just assumes so much.

I could have read your paragraph:

"Sometimes you might as well say: While just sitting, (not Gagoo), enjoying a pufpuf, a thought occurred to me. Kalitoma and Hoktua are two sides of the same coin. This is because they are both abstracts of the mind. Reality is Duchess, thus nothing to look to gain, nothing to look to escape from. All already is. The Reality that is Gagoo itself. Apologies for any ignorance on my part. I just, not only thought it, but "felt" it. Look kindly on my rambling."

And if we're just rambling it reminds me of general semantics.

General semantics, developed by Alfred Korzybski in the 1930s, posits that language is an abstraction of reality and not reality itself, "the map is not the territory." Korzybski emphasized that words are abstractions, and we often mistake our linguistic representations for the things themselves. He argued that no two people necessarily mean the same thing when using a word, especially abstract terms like "God," "freedom," or "love," which are prone to misunderstanding due to their lack of clear, shared referents and personal, cultural, or emotional associations. Korzybski warned that language oversimplifies experience and can distort thinking, particularly when we assume fixed meanings. He advocated for increased awareness of how language filters and shapes reality, urging individuals to clarify meanings rather than assume agreement.

There's a lot of assumptions when people are talking about Buddhism. Even to use the word "Enlightenment" one would assume one had some experience of this in order to use the word. Otherwise, what are you even talking about?

It's a friggin miracle you can understand anything I'm saying!


Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

Indeed, in Neuroligusitic Programming, which take much from General Sematics, there is a presupposition, the map is not the territory. Basically, words are not Reality. Also, you can't have any direct effect on Reality, but only upon your perception of it. This while trying to improve your environment/reality, is Zen's "seeing with both eyes."

Gassho,

Mujin

[Junsho]

While just sitting, (not Zazen), enjoying a cigar, a thought occurred to me. Nirvana and samsara are two sides of the same coin. This is because they are both abstracts of the mind. Reality is suchness, thus nothing to look to gain, nothing to look to escape from. All already is. The Reality that is Zazen itself.
Apologies for any ignorance on my part. I just, not only thought it, but "felt" it. Look kindly on my rambling.

Gassho

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

Hi Mujin,

You know, I am not a teacher, so consider this just as a friendly little help.

About what you said, I would say something slightly different. Nirvana and Samsara are on the same side of the coin. Like happiness and sadness, one cannot exist without another.

Nirvana is already here but Samsara is also already here our dualistic mind that makes the difference. Our mind is the filter that not allow us to see the reality as it is.

Gassho!
SatLah

[FNJ]

Indeed, in Neuroligusitic Programming, which take much from General Sematics, there is a presupposition, the map is not the territory. Basically, words are not Reality. Also, you can't have any direct effect on Reality, but only upon your perception of it. This while trying to improve your environment/reality, is Zen's "seeing with both eyes."

Gassho,

Mujin

Yes and as you said you were attempting to describe the "feeling". Which is difficult even on a good day with subject matter that we are intimately acquainted with.

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

[Houzan]

Hi Mujin,

Sounds like a great cigar!

I wonder if it is something like a “cognitive kensho”. In psychology, “schemas” are cognitive structures we use to make sense of the world. When something challenges these schemas sufficiently, we can have what is called “cognitive restructuring”. These moments can be powerful and often accompanied by an experience often described as “everything looks the same but feels differently”, or “the pieces suddenly fit together”. Many descriptions of kensho seem to fit the experience of a cognitive restructuring quite neatly, I think.

Let me add that there is really nothing to do after such an experience than to continue practice. And there is some danger in the whole “kensho” idea as it seems, to me, to suggest that we are getting somewhere.

Kensho, as I was thought here, is about seeing reality directly, it’s not about concepts. In other words, it is what is happening in our zazen. The “true” kensho.

Sorry for running long.

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

[Jundo]

While just sitting, (not Zazen), enjoying a cigar, a thought occurred to me. Nirvana and samsara are two sides of the same coin. This is because they are both abstracts of the mind. Reality is suchness, thus nothing to look to gain, nothing to look to escape from. All already is. The Reality that is Zazen itself.
Apologies for any ignorance on my part. I just, not only thought it, but "felt" it. Look kindly on my rambling.

Gassho

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

Hah, I just wrote about this in Niall's other post. Yes, this is Basic Zen Mahayana 101 (minus the cigar) ...

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/treeleaf/treeleaf-community-topics-about-zen-practice/548727-why-not-buddha?p=548740#post548740

The feeling this in the bones, and on the Zafu and in the rest of life, is vital. And here is the irony, the Koan ...

... reality is suchness, thus nothing to look to gain, nothing to look to escape from. ...

Yes, this is true, the Buddha Cigar has no start or finish, never stops burning, no life or death ... AND YET ... this little cigar does burn down to a nub, costs money you need to earn, will give you lung damage, and you should quit smoking so as not to shorten your life. All true. Cough-Non-Cough.
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image.png


Addiction is a terrible thing ...
.

About a quarter of Thailand's 300,000 Buddhist monks can't kick the habit despite an anti-smoking campaign targeting them, local health authorities say.

The campaign was launched in 2003 in response to statistics showing that the leading cause of death among Thai monks is tobacco related disease.

Associate Professor Supreda Adulayanon of the Thai Health Promotion Foundation, an independent agency set up by the government, says the number of smoking monks has decreased, but not by enough.

The number of monks who smoke fell from 55% 15 years ago to 25% today, according to the foundation.

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/05/31/1380995.htm

Gassho, J
stlah

[Seiko]

As a novice priest around here, please take my comments with a pinch of salt.

I am reminded of this story:

Four men are given delicious food, but told they can only eat with special spoons. The spoon handles are two metres long. Two of the men selfishly tried to feed themselves. As the spoons were so long, it was impossible. They were unable to eat a thing (Samsara). The other two men noticed this predicament and decided to solve it by feeding each other. When they helped each other the long spoons easily reached their friends' mouths. So they all enjoyed the most beautiful food and were satisfied (Nirvana).

Gasshō, Seiko, stlah