I have enjoyed this thread. Reminds me of a story from Tanahashi/Schneider's 'Essential Zen':
Seung Sahn would say, "When you eat, just eat. When you read the newspaper, just read the newspaper. Don't do anything other than what you are doing."
One day a student saw him reading the newspaper while he was eating. The student asked if this did not contradict his teaching. Seung Sahn said, "When you eat and read the newspaper, just eat and read the newspaper."
Gassho,
Matt
Mindfulness
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Thanks, Taigu, that sums it up while keeping it simple.
The thing is that sometimes I am entangling myself in so many questions, differentiations, nuances, etc. that I am more confused than before.
That's why I like zazen so much - I can drop all this mental work then...
Gassho,
TimoLeave a comment:
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Hi Jundo,
That's the "problem" with language: everyone has their own definitions...
To confuse things even more, there are also the concepts of "witnessing" and "the watcher". However, to me these imply a kind of detachment.
Once I was very good at "detaching". I remember the day when I was sitting in my car and someone drove back and bumped into it. Then he drove a bit forward, went into reverse again and hit it once more. While others in my car were yelling a bit shocked, I simply watched, totally unmoved. When I think about it right now, this kind of indifferent reaction seems a bit creepy to me.
Anyway, IMHO when you are detached/witnessing you are also mindful/present in the moment at the same time.
Gassho,
TimoLeave a comment:
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Thank you Jundo.
A special thanks to Kojip, zombie movies may never be the same.Leave a comment:
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Rather, it is the mental dividing which we do each day ... separating "self" from "everything else", categorizing, judging, resisting or longing for ... that we "do" and should simply stop doing.
So, merging is not something we "do", but is realized merely when we put down the mental knife and hammer and give 'em a rest. Put that hammer down!
That's Shikantaza ... putting down and releasing thoughts of this and that, regrets of the past, worries of the future, ratings of the things we like and the things we hate.
When I want to be "one with the moment" ... when with my kids, drinking tea, or any time ... it is not a matter of "doing something", but of "NOT DOING", by merely dropping the mental walls, extraneous thoughts and like baggage that I am doing in my head.
Gassho, J
Last edited by Jundo; 11-23-2012, 04:39 AM.Leave a comment:
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It seems to me that many people in Zen Practice have come to confuse "being present/mindful in the moment" (for example, "when drinking tea, just drink tea" ... a sometimes appropriate and lovely way to experience life) ... with "being at one with the moment" (allowing and merging with conditions of life "just as they are"). The two are not quite the same, and are often confused, and the latter is much more at the heart of this Shikantaza Path ...
Sorry for the loopy question. Gassho, kojip
ed. this is one of those seed in the teeth subjects for me because on the internet (have the internet on mind these days) there are many folks who have read about "things as they are" and who see no need to keep a practice because they having intellectually recognized the truth of that, and that there is nothing to attain. That recognition is seen as enough.Last edited by RichardH; 11-23-2012, 04:01 AM.Leave a comment:
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Guest repliedWonderful Jundo ... Thank you for this.
Gassho
MichaelLeave a comment:
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I don't want to turn into a mindfulness zombie! Thanks for the clarification on mindfulness Jundo, seems that's all Zen Folk are talking about these days. I guess everything has a time and place. Would this be an example of the middle way?
Gassho, Shawn.Leave a comment:
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I remember a funny Mindfulness incident. This was some years ago at a Forest Sangha retreat. There is Mindfulness practice in that tradition, but Mindfulness is a conscious practice that eventually falls away into effortless Awareness, in the same sense as ordinary being in Zen. Awareness isn't an effort, it is just the basic space of "living and moving and having our being". At this retreat there were a lot of very earnest people trying to be aware, and that meant doing things reeeal slow, specially during the midday meal. Everyone was w-a-l-k-i-n-g to the food table then s-p-o-o-n-i-n-g food into a bowl, then slowly slowly l---i---f---t---i---n---g the food and c-----h-----e-----w-----i-----n-----g. Later while giving a talk the teacher, who had observed this, held both his arms out straight in front, groaned, then warned us not to become "Mindfulness Zombies". That got a big laugh of recognition.
Gassho, kojip
Gassho
AlanLeave a comment:
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I remember a funny Mindfulness incident. This was some years ago at a Forest Sangha retreat. There is Mindfulness practice in that tradition, but Mindfulness is a conscious practice that eventually falls away into effortless Awareness, in the same sense as ordinary being in Zen. Awareness isn't an effort, it is just the basic space of "living and moving and having our being". At this retreat there were a lot of very earnest people trying to be aware, and that meant doing things reeeal slow, specially during the midday meal. Everyone was w-a-l-k-i-n-g to the food table then s-p-o-o-n-i-n-g food into a bowl, then slowly slowly l---i---f---t---i---n---g the food and c-----h-----e-----w-----i-----n-----g. Later while giving a talk the teacher, who had observed this, held both his arms out straight in front, groaned, then warned us not to become "Mindfulness Zombies". That got a big laugh of recognition.
Gassho, kojipLast edited by RichardH; 11-22-2012, 09:42 PM.Leave a comment:
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Hello Jundo,
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.
I totally agree with you.
I should have added some context to my quotes above. Muho was just answering questions about mindfulness - I think he does not advocate being mindful all the time.
I personally have certain activities I try to do mindfully: household chores, eating, drinking espresso, Tai-Chi, Ba Duan Jin, etc.
Most of the other time of the day I plan other things, daydream, etc. as well. Imagination/Creativity is very important to me as well.
So the above excerpts should be understood as addressing those times when we want to be mindful.
I think you are right that there is even some confusion in the Buddhist world. I remember vaguely a comment by Brad Warner on Twitter to a tweet by Thich Nhat Hanh about mindfulness. Which - of course - led to some discussions...
Gassho,
TimoLeave a comment:
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