Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

[Onken]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

I recently read a book, The Complete Book of Zen, in which the author stresses the fact that practicing kungfu and chi kung is essential to cultivating your Zen experience and eventually realizing your cosmic reality. While I could see the benefits, I have not heard this before, and have to wonder is there actual merit to this claim, or is it simply a skewed viewpoint, given that he is in fact a grandmaster of both Shaolin Kungfu and Chi Kung.

Any thoughts?

All,

Zen in itself has cultivated the martial arts for centuries; They are two sides of the same coin. The author has a point that practicing martial arts cultivates your Zen, but your Zen also improves your art. There have been hundreds of books written on the subject, one of which is Suzuki's "Zen and Japanese Culture", a wonderful read if someone hasn't had the opportunity.

It is well known about the relationship between the famed swordsman, Musashi Miyamoto and the Zen priest Takuan. Takuan was Musashi's "spiritual adviser" and helped him in many ways. Still, Menkyo Kaiden (all passed) transmission scrolls of famous martial art schools were issued to disciples with nothing written on them signifying the true secret of swordsmanship and Zen. There was another famous book written by Takuan (a Rinzai priest) about his correspondences with Yagyu Munenori titled "The unfettered Mind" translated from Japanese as The Mysterious Records of Immovable Wisdom. You see these relationships with more traditional arts (kendo, kyudo, aikido, koryu arts, etc) Less with more mainstream "Americanized" arts. It mentioned that if one's mind stopped on the sword, one would be cut down. It is only when one's mind is not fixed and is free, one can "survive". These are all things we practice as Zen practitioners in general, albeit in different forms. My martial arts teacher is a Zen Buddhist and I can see the HUGE influence Zen has on the arts and the spirituality of the arts (hence the reason I got interested in Zen to begin with). I think this is universal for everything though. Just my 2 cents....

Gassho,

Matt

[Ekai]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

If you are at the right school with great instructors who have a positive attitude, martial arts can support any Buddhist practice. You learn and practice many of the same virtues taught in Buddhism such as mindfulness, focus, attention, patience, respect, compassion, courtesy, humility, integrity & morality, self-control, perseverance, energy & effort and commitment. All of these things are necessary for the martial artist well as the Buddhist.

I have found that when I am in the DoJang, it is like a mirror into my true self. I see the connection between how well or poorly I am executing a technique to what is going on inside of me. I can see this as long as I am aware of it. Being fully in the present moment and letting go of any expectations or self-judgements allows the techniques to flow and move effectively. Just like in other areas of life. The more present I am with my experience by letting go and allowing things be as they are, the easier it is to go with the flow of life.

There are plenty of other hobbies/interests/skills other than martial arts that can support Buddhism. Whether it is gardening or playing guitar, finding a venture that is right for yourself and will challenge you can help you experience and understand the Buddhist teachings more fully.

Thanks,
Jodi

[Hoyu]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Jodi wrote:
You learn and practice many of the same virtues taught in Buddhism such as mindfulness, focus, attention, patience, respect, compassion, courtesy, humility, integrity & morality, self-control, perseverance, energy & effort and commitment.

Just to add another idea to the list above. Something our Karate teacher mentioned in a recent talk about kumite(sparring) went something like this:

When you get hit don't let your thoughts dwell on it. Let it go because if your mind gets stuck on it you will miss what is happening in the here and now. Don't forget that another strike will soon follow the first!

He is not a Buddhist, but when he said this I thought it sounded like a similar idea.

Gassho,
John

[Jundo]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Practicing Aikido I can vouche for the fact that you indeed get into what sports guys call "The Zone".

It's that place in your mind you reach after 1 or 2 hours of training and that you simply forget your body and suddenly you are on this dimension where everything flows. You no longer feel tired or pain and you just keep on moving, practicing until Sensei calls yame!

Well, being in "the Zone" is Zazen. Also, being 100 miles out of "the Zone" is Zazen. Zazen, in fact, is the "ZONE OF NO ZONE".

The mental balance for which we aim is not necessarily a feeling of "mental balance". It is, rather, being balanced with the fact that sometimes we have balance, sometimes life knocks us off balance and we fall down. We sit at the pivot point of all that, no way to "lost are balance" and "no place to fall" ... even as we stumble and fall.

Of course, in all martial arts, one does not learn only how to stay ever on ones feet. One learns how to fall well.

I would also say that I see no problem with connecting Zen practice with Martial Arts if pacifism is emphasized, self-defense (even though there is no "self" to defend) and fundamental non-violence. Likewise, Zen practice can go with any work or art ... kung fu, bowling, flower arranging, wedding arranging, the way of tea, the way of coffee ...

However, it is also my feeling that the historical connection between the Samurai, militarism and Zen Buddhism in Japan was a political happenstance and rather unfortunate. The fact of the matter is that, for hundreds of years, the warriors were the government, almost all donors and temple sponsors were warriors, and thus Zen practice found common ground with the warrior philosophy and culture of the day because they needed their permissions to build temples, their money, their support. Also, of course, to "move ahead" in the monks world, one had to hang out with the elite ... the warriors ... and, anyway, these were people from the same social circles. However, it is not necessarily the best thing that happened ... with Zen masters thus advising swordsman and soldiers on the best way to slaughter others and die themselves.

More on that in a very imperfect (because the author exaggerated, horribly misquoted and played fast and lose with the facts sometimes) but nonetheless worthwhile book ... Zen at War ... (among others, the nationalist D.T. Suzuki and "Zen and Japanese Culture" gets taken to task a bit for his agenda).

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-at-War-Daizen ... 0834804050

Gassho, Jundo ++

++ (husband of Mina, 2nd Dan Black Belt in Aikido, 1st Dan in Karate ... and I can attest that Ai-ki-do, although not connected to Buddhism particularly as the founder was more a Shintoist, is nonetheless a form of "moving Zen". But, really, so is so much of what my wife does.)

[Hoyu]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Later in life, Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido also studied and was greatly influenced spiritually by the Omoto-Kyo(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oomoto) religion of Onisaburo Deguchi.

Upon hearing of his father's serious illness, Ueshiba sold off most of his property and left the dojo to Takeda . He would not to return to Hokkaido. On his journey home, he impulsively stopped in Ayabe, headquarters for the new Omoto-kyo religion. Here he met the master of the new religion, Deguchi Onisaburo. After being enthralled with Ayabe and Deguchi, he stayed three additional days and upon returning home, found that he had stayed away too long. His father had passed away. Ueshiba took his father's death very hard. He decided to sell off all his ancestral land and move to Ayabe to study Omoto-kyo. For the next eight years, Ueshiba studied with Deguchi Onisaburo, taught Budo, and headed up the local fire brigade.
A pacifist, Deguchi was an advocate of non-violent resistance and universal disarmament. He was noted to have said, "Armament and war are the means by which the landlords and capitalists make their profit, while the poor suffer." It is intriguing that a man of this nature could become so close to a martial artist such as Ueshiba. However, it did not take long for Deguchi to realize that Ueshiba's purpose on earth was " to teach the real meaning of Budo: an end to all fighting and contention. "
The study of Omoto-kyo and his association with Onisaburo profoundly affected Ueshiba's life. He once stated that while Sokaku Takeda opened his eyes to the essence of Budo, his enlightenment came from his Omoto-kyo experiences. During his early 40s (around 1925), Ueshiba had several spiritual experiences which so impressed him that his life and his training were forever changed. He realized the true purpose of Budo was love that cherishes and nourishes all beings.

Gassho,
John

[Dokan]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Just this past week I started classes again in Tai Chi. I found this thread very timely because I have been looking for some "body practice" as Daido Roshi calls it. It has been a toss up between this and Aikido. I still plan on trying Aikido as my wife has taken it in the past and would like to again. I am not interested in belt systems nor anything aggressive. For me I hoped for meditation in motion. Having taken Tai Chi in the past I feel comfortable here. And, with the added sword and Bo forms this teacher includes I think it'll be a nice fit.

Gassho,

Shawn

[Heisoku]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

I practice aikido, tai chi and qigong. I started aikido after reading Daido Roshi's book suggesting a body practice ( as you are Shawn) and I was needing it at the time! As far as a meditation in motion aikido is simply a defensive martial art where one has to find harmony through calmness within a range of attacking modes...plenty of stuffout there on that. Anyway it is difficult to practise alone so I also learn tai chi, short and long forms with staff. However although these are practised in slow controlled movements the applications are quite vicious and to the point! What a contradiction!
I also practice qigong - 5 animal play and shibashi 18 form. Now these I find are really health promoting and invigorating but are about producing quietitude and as with all precise movement activities - mindfulness.
Despite all these 'practices' I am finding that zazen is something more inclusive -well now at least - a place to be all these in and more! Thanks to the guidance and insights here at Treeleaf.
Good luck in finding your body practice!

[Hoyu]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Shawn wrote:
I still plan on trying Aikido as my wife has taken it in the past and would like to again. I am not interested in belt systems nor anything aggressive. For me I hoped for meditation in motion. Having taken Tai Chi in the past I feel comfortable here.

Hi Shawn,
I like the idea of doing it together! Is your wife interested in Tai Chi also? Maybe you can do that with eachother as well?
Here is another point to consider. I'm not sure about the class structure of Tai Chi but I found Aikido to be very family friendly. From having family classes to just allowing the kids to entertain themselves at tables off the mat. As a parent of 2, I know it can be nearly impossible to take any kind of classes together with a spouse. Typically one has to watch the kid/kids. So it usually ends up being done less together and more as a trade off. Unless you have a babysitter easily lined up it's going to take a little brainstorming! What have you come up with on the matter so far?

Gassho,
John

[Rev R]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

My personal practice is highly influenced by Suzuki Shosan's methods (or rather how I interpret them a few hundred years later). What I see is not appropriating Zen to create a better killer, but the appropriation of the warrior's mind to create a stronger Zen practice. What is the warrior's mind? Fierce determination, the duty to serve, acceptance of impermanence.

I think that it is important to also mention that while martial practice offers a connection to the way of the warrior it is not the historical warrior that is ...for lack of a better word, idolized. Much the same holds true for the Holy Men we look up to. History shows us that the noble warrior was not always so noble and the holy man is not always so holy. It is the archetype of the warrior or the holy man we bring into ourselves, but it's not a goal that we strive toward and kick ourselves when we don't live up to it. It is a constant reminder of what we can be and what we can inspire in others.

At least that is how it appears to this one.

Rod

[Ekai]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

(husband of Mina, 2nd Dan Black Belt in Aikido, 1st Dan in Karate ... and I can attest that Ai-ki-do, although not connected to Buddhism particularly as the founder was more a Shintoist, is nonetheless a form of "moving Zen". But, really, so is so much of what my wife does.)

Jundo,

How come you don't take Aikido with Mina? Does your son take Aikido too? Just curious.

I agree that Aikido "is nonetheless a form of "moving Zen".

Thanks,
Jodi

[Jundo]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Jundo,

How come you don't take Aikido with Mina? Does your son take Aikido too? Just curious.

Hah! I'd love too ... and it would keep me from looking like Hotei Maitreya!



But, anyway, she watches our son during our Zazenkai's here at Treeleaf ... and I watch him during her Aikido.

The Aikido, by the way, is very good for our marriage. You see, my 90 pound wife goes to the class filled with the other students, including some 200 pound Bulgarians and Germans. Mina throws those guys around for a couple of hours like sacks of potatoes (no kidding), taking out all her stress of being married to me ... comes home ready to live with me for another week.

Here she is, by the way...



Gassho, J

[Hoyu]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Jundo wrote:
taking out all her stress of being married to me ... comes home ready to live with me for another week.

Hmmmm maybe I should get my wife into Akikdo too!!!! :lol:
Thanks for sharing this pic of Mina. She looks like she means business!

Gassho,
John

[Ekai]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Jundo,

Mina looks lovely and tough too! Sounds like you are very proud of her. My husband is not in the martial arts with me either. He is an ATV rider. So I stay with our son while he rides his 4-wheeler and he watches Hunter when I am in martial arts class. It definitely keeps the peace in the house.

Thanks,
Jodi

[Kyonin]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Mina throws those guys around for a couple of hours like sacks of potatoes (no kidding), taking out all her stress of being married to me ... comes home ready to live with me for another week.

LOL

Yep, she looks pretty elegant.

My sensei, Tauchi-san once told me that if she was the queen of the Earth, she would make people take Aikido lessons daily.

I somehow agree. :mrgreen:

[joshbrown]

Re: Zen, kungfu, and chi kung

Shawn wrote:
I still plan on trying Aikido as my wife has taken it in the past and would like to again. I am not interested in belt systems nor anything aggressive. For me I hoped for meditation in motion. Having taken Tai Chi in the past I feel comfortable here.

Hi Shawn,
I like the idea of doing it together! Is your wife interested in Tai Chi also? Maybe you can do that with eachother as well?
Here is another point to consider. I'm not sure about the class structure of Tai Chi but I found Aikido to be very family friendly. From having family classes to just allowing the kids to entertain themselves at tables off the mat. As a parent of 2, I know it can be nearly impossible to take any kind of classes together with a spouse. Typically one has to watch the kid/kids. So it usually ends up being done less together and more as a trade off. Unless you have a babysitter easily lined up it's going to take a little brainstorming! What have you come up with on the matter so far?

Gassho,
John

Are you in the twin cities area? If so, where do you practice Aikido? I am very interested in becoming involved in a martial art that is 'family freindly.'