Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

[ChrisA]

Just arrived and very eager to participate in discussions here. I have searched for a topic on this subject but can't quite find it, so here goes.

There's a lot written about the practice of shikantaza, but I've begun wondering about the transition out of shikantaza and into... well doing something else. What do you do? Do you have a routine, or does it vary?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

[Saijun]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hello Chris,

Do you mean moving from Shikantaza into a meditative technique (Anapanasati etc)? Or, how to take the Shikantaza off of the cushion into daily life?

Metta,

Saijun

[ChrisA]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Do you mean moving from Shikantaza into a meditative technique (Anapanasati etc)? Or, how to take the Shikantaza off of the cushion into daily life?

The latter, Saijun, "off the cushion" in a metaphorical and literal sense both. The bell rings (or, for me at home, the timer on my Android goes off!), I finish a few last breaths, and I must "start my day." That transition between sitting and starting has been compelling to me, and I would be interested to know what people do both in the most practical terms -- "I get a drink of water"; "I stretch my legs"; etc. -- and in terms of carrying nonattachment, awareness, and so on forward.

Not sure if that makes sense or not. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

[Hoyu]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Transition? If all of life is Shikantaza there can be no transition from, or to.

Gassho,
John

[ChrisA]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Well, sure! As I would say if I were still in middle school, "I wish!"

But, honestly, I am unable to maintain the level of awareness I can attain in just sitting when I set off into a world in which I must drive to get to work, prepare my daughter's lunch so she has food at school... off into the world of goals, intentions, and the like. I also spend my time off the cushion while in that world!

So while I understand that "all of life is Shikantaza," I also have experienced off-cushion shikantaza differently from on-cushion, despite the duality of such a distinction. If others have that experience as well, I'd be interested to hear how they approach it.

S'all.

[Saijun]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hello Chris,

When I'm done with sitting, I'll...

1.) get up, stretch out a bit, brush my teeth, and go to bed (if it's late),
2.) get up, take two steps over to my sewing table and work on my Okesa (if it's not) as that's kind of a middle ground for me between "sitting" and "working," or
3.) get up, stretch out, brush my teeth, and take out the dogs (if it's morning).

As far as my all-day-every-day application of Shikantaza, I generally go through my day, and...I don't know how to put it...just sit with what comes up as it comes up. Shikan-living maybe? I do sit for 30 minutes at lunch most every day to "touch base" as it were for the second half of the day.

A couple of days back, I wrote an example using my asthma and its treatment as an example, but it's applicable to this discussion too (I think) as it's a pretty good representation of the attitude that I try to keep throughout the day.

I'm asthmatic. Nearly every day I have to take a hit of some very powerful controller medication, and this seems to be the pattern for the rest of my life. There is a qualitative difference between sitting on the days that I take my meds and the days that I don't. However, I like breathing and do it several times a day. I feel rather badly when I don't. So, on days when I'm clear and med free, I sit with that. On days when I'm cloudy and on meds, I sit with that. How can your practice be invalid?

As Rev. (Bro?) Fugen says, "you're ok, perfect even, just as you are." To paraphrase Jundo, we sit with our sickness, whole and complete, even as we go through treatment to get better.

--From viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3861

That's not really a satisfactory answer, I know (and apologize), but I'm not exactly sure how to say what I'm getting at.

Metta,

Saijun

[Risho]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

As others have echoed, life is Shikantaza. Maybe it's not on the cushion, but the practice helps us use that mindset during our day to day in order to create space from what is bugging us, or doing something to me, or hurting me, to curiously observing and letting go. Easier said than done. But that's why it's practice.

Everything's great until that bastard cuts me off... but that can be fun. Why did it make me so mad? What did the person take from me? Why am I threatened? The practice is like discovery.

Gassho,

Risho

[ChrisA]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Thanks, Saijun! That's precisely what I was asking about.

1.) get up...
2.) get up...
3.) get up...

A question for you: do you have a particular way that you "get up"? For example, I've been trying to continue to be aware of my body when shifting out my legs from the half-lotus I'm in, then in stretching, then in standing.

As far as my all-day-every-day application of Shikantaza, I generally go through my day, and...I don't know how to put it...just sit with what comes up as it comes up. Shikan-living maybe?

I appreciate that! Goes to John's [ETA] point above.

That's not really a satisfactory answer, I know (and apologize), but I'm not exactly sure how to say what I'm getting at.

Well, neither do I, so I appreciate your post all the more. Thanks.

[Saijun]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

1.) get up...
2.) get up...
3.) get up...

A question for you: do you have a particular way that you "get up"? For example, I've been trying to continue to be aware of my body when shifting out my legs from the half-lotus I'm in, then in stretching, then in standing.

[

Hello Chris,

Actually, I bow, unfold my legs, sit for a moment while the blood gets to flowing normally again (assuming that my legs have fallen asleep, as they are sometimes wont to do), turn around on my cushion, stand up (trying to keep good posture), bow again, and go about my day.

Or, if the dogs reeeeally have to go outside, I do one bow and make a mad dash to the door.

Metta,

Saijun

[ChrisA]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Or, if the dogs reeeeally have to go outside, I do one bow and make a mad dash to the door.

:lol: That sounds about right.

[KellyRok]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hello all,

Well, Pedestrian...that's sort of a tough question to answer. When I'm done with sitting I take a couple of deep breaths, stretch my legs, bow, stand, bow to Buddha, do few yoga stretches (sun salutation) to release any tightness in my spine, and then go about my day. I like to sit outside in the fresh air alot, so if I'm sitting outside, when my zazen is completed I sit easily for a little bit and listen to my surroundings. I like to watch and listen to the birds that visit the trees nearby.

During the day, I do try to watch my thoughts - if I'm irritated or angry, I ask why and then it usually loses its hold. If happy, well I don't usually question that, but instead just go along with it.

Not sure if this is any help or not. But after sitting regularly for a while, you will notice that your reactions to things in your daily acitivies begin to change.

keep sitting, stretching and asking, bows

Kelly/Jinmei

[ghop]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hello Pedestrian!

I have found that the longer it takes me to "come out" of zazen the better I feel, the smoother the transition is from "letting go" to "getting going."

There's just no hurry. How I stretch afterward, maybe yawn, rub my eyes, is just as important as the time I sit with my legs crossed Burmese style, my hands in the mudra. But I do try to make the transition slowly. I'm not a tall guy. I have short legs. Often I will give them a rub before standing. I try to be just as aware of these movements as when sitting. But NO SPECIAL EFFORT! :shock:

This may be a little new-agey for some, but I do try to get something good out of my sitting. Rather, something good happens EVERY TIME I SIT, I just try to be aware of it. It might be that I relearn how to drop expectations. Or there might be a real settling down into deep joy. Either way, my practice has become this...I SIT TO DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR MYSELF...THEN I TRY TO DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR SOMEONE ELSE DURING THE DAY. That is so simple. And it's working for me right now. That's my practice anyway.

gassho
Greg

[ChrisA]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hello KellyRok!

Well, Pedestrian...that's sort of a tough question to answer.

Best kind, don't you think? :wink:

I like to sit outside in the fresh air alot, so if I'm sitting outside, when my zazen is completed I sit easily for a little bit and listen to my surroundings. I like to watch and listen to the birds that visit the trees nearby.

I've been doing something similar: I sit in a room with very large picture windows to my right (looking out onto trees and bushes and birds) and to my left (onto a busy street lined with other houses). I spend time gazing out through those windows, just turning my head to look out one then the other, before I rise from the cushion.

Not sure if this is any help or not. But after sitting regularly for a while, you will notice that your reactions to things in your daily acitivies begin to change.

Already have, extensively and to great benefit. It's one of the reasons that I asked this question!

[ChrisA]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hello, Greg, and thanks!

I have found that the longer it takes me to "come out" of zazen the better I feel, the smoother the transition is from "letting go" to "getting going."

Yes! Exactly! I wish I had the ability always to transition slowly, but some mornings getting going has greater, shall we say, impetus. I reference Saijun's dogs!

[Hoyu]

Re: Transitioning From Shikantaza To...

Hi All,

As important as the sitting itself(in my opinion) is the getting into and out of Zazen. When the bell rings do you groan loudly, roll over, or think to yourself "finally!"? Or do you rather, rise from the Zafu, stool, chair,etc as a Buddha? It is easy to forget to follow ritual when life beckons. Especially when everything gets put on "hold" while you sit. Sometimes we have to rush to calm a crying child or let the dog out afterwards and I feel it is not wrong to do so. But focus is important as well. I apply 2 things i have learned from different disciplines.

First is the martial arts. In Aikido we practice Zanshin after every technique. Zanshin is a soft and relaxed state of alertness of the mind. You never lose focus. Always present even when the technique is "done". Its just a brief holding of a mental state until its time to move to the next.

Second is Tea Ceremony. After the guests leave the host should see them off until they disappear from sight. Then the host should go back into the tea room to silently reflect before taking care of the cleanup.

Both have a similar idea of the importance of the mind before mind after.

Gassho,
John