eyes

[Ola Nelsson]

Do you have your eyes open or closed when you meditate?

gassho
Ola

[Adam]

Re: eyes

Hello,

My eyes are half open when I sit zazen. It's easier to be aware of the present moment. To be here. If our eyes are closed, it can be easier to slip away into the void of thoughts and images; IMO.

Gassho,

Adam

[anista]

Re: eyes

Do you have your eyes open or closed when you meditate?

gassho
Ola

Normally in our tradition, we have our eyes open. Not fully opened, but sort of relaxed, half opened. I used to have my eyes open as well, but paradoxically I got very, very sleepy, so I had to close them. Now I have a problem that I constantly get a feeling that I'm levitating. So it's either eyes opened = falling asleep, or eyes closed = levitating. I don't know which one is worse .

[tcv]

Re: eyes

I started eyes-closed. I have recently begun experimenting with eyes-relaxed-open. Oftentimes, I forget to try the latter.

I find that I am more easily entertained by my thoughts when my eyes are closed.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: eyes

I started with my eyes closed too. But started sitting with eyes open after I got some better instruction in Zazen. I suspect that my first experiences of what I called 'samadhi' was just me getting drowsy and dozing off...
It is far easier to stay focused and attentive with the eyes open and at least I am less prone to hallucinate. I'm embarrased to admit that I miss some of those experiences... ops:
For beginners open eyes are always recommended for a reason.
On the other hand, we are told to let a short breath be short and a long breath be long. Shouldn't we also let the open eyes be open and the closed eyes closed? :wink:

Gassho,
Pontus

[Genkai]

Re: eyes

I have a hard time with the half-closed eyes. Stuck in that halfway state, my eyelids feel heavier and heavier like they want to close and allow me to doze off (a feeling I don't get at all when my eyes are closed). So I will tend to go through all the variations during a sit: Closed, half-closed, and wide open. I honestly don't think about it much, and just let my eyes do what they seem to want to naturally do.

I have taken to sitting in front of a plain white wall. This helps avoid the natural tendency to focus on an object, but it leaves my back to the camera in the sitting hall which sometimes I worry is a little rude. I know the white wall is traditional in Soto Zen, but I would be curious as to what others do. Staring out into the room? At the floor? Facing an altar?

When I began meditating years back I'd sit in a dark room and focus on the flickering of a candle. Very relaxing, but not very Zazen at all.

[Saijun]

Re: eyes

I started with my eyes closed too. But started sitting with eyes open after I got some better instruction in Zazen. I suspect that my first experiences of what I called 'samadhi' was just me getting drowsy and dozing off...
It is far easier to stay focused and attentive with the eyes open and at least I am less prone to hallucinate. I'm embarrased to admit that I miss some of those experiences... ops:
For beginners open eyes are always recommended for a reason.
On the other hand, we are told to let a short breath be short and a long breath be long. Shouldn't we also let the open eyes be open and the closed eyes closed? :wink:

Gassho,
Pontus

Hello Pontus,

As I recall, the Rev. Trevor on thebigoldoaktree.blogspot.com posted, some time ago, an article from a venerable old monk (possibly the Rev. Suzuki), saying that it was acceptable for veteran sitters (meaning those who had been sitting for 50+ years) to close their eyes. For the rest of us, eyes open!

Metta,

Perry

[Dokan]

Re: eyes

I have no eyes when I sit...but am all eyes at the same time.

Haha, just kidding, just a futile attempt at being zen-nie. :twisted:

Honestly though I go with the flow. I normally try to have them partly open but don't force it one way or another.

One thing I can say for sure, they are definitely closed when I fall asleep. :shock:

Gassho,

Shawn

[Risho]

Re: eyes

I keep my eyes open looking downward about 2 - 3 feet in front of me. I think Dogen said something that we don't close our eyes because we do not want to exclude teh outside world... Outside and Inside are all the same. Something like that; and I may be mis-stating it. But I definitely find it easier to get lost in thought when my eyes are closed.

Gassho,

Risho

[ghop]

Re: eyes

I have no eyes when I sit...

Oh my God! see a doctor!

Haha, just kidding

NOT funny.

Honestly though

How can we trust you now?

One thing I can say for sure

How can you trust yourself even?

This is too much fun. Maybe I should lose my password.

But Shards did have the best answer.

Keep your eyes open during zazen. Otherwise you might miss enlightenment. 8)

Keep your eyes closed during sleep. Otherwise you might miss the dream.

Or...vice versa.


gassho
greg

[Taigu]

Re: eyes

Eyes shoukd be kept open during sitting. Just open, slighly. Not fixing. Not focused. This is what we call the gaze on the distant mountains. As we see without watching, we perceive everything, invite everything. You may sometimes close your eyes when you are a well seasoned sitter but then, you have to practice like Kannon and pay attention to what you hear, that will help you to keep your balance and not fall asleep.

gassho


Taigu

[Myoku]

Re: eyes

Sitting towards a wall, eyes half open,
still, i can dream pretty well of what I did
and will do. Eyes fully open, feels like
waking up, but I go back to half open
soon as I feel a bit more awake

_()_
Peter

ps.: my mind found a thousand things on that wall,
bugs and ants, buddha, naked woman (I'm a man ...),
a jumpinkg monk, a ugly face which turned out to
be the most characterfull I've ever dreamt of...

[Janne H]

Re: eyes

Hi,

I mostly sit with my eyes closed, because that´s how I´ve got used to doing since I began to practice. I don´t get carried away that much by thoughts or images etc or sleepy. And for me through both experience and logic it´s more likely that I get more distracted when sitting with eyes open.

Have you seen a musician or a sportsman just a moment before performance closing their eyes for a moment to regain some inner focus, some musicians even prefer keeping their eyes closed through most of the act. Why is that? Probably to keep less obstructions from being there to cause distractions. So I don´t see why one would get more distracted when having one´s eyes closed, one is clearly having less to focus on, and the other way around when having eyes open there is more "things" to distract you. That´s what I experience when sitting, I feel my body sitting, some emotions, sounds playing, thoughts and images passing, and that´s that, not so much to grab you. Adding sight could easily shake that up, having more to keep track of.

On the other hand, sometimes I do sit with eyes open and I´m working on that, cause it takes some getting used to. And I trust my teachers when they recommend having open eyes. Understanding that one is not to keep out the "outside" world, but then again we don´t look around when we sit, so why not just close them. It´s more comfortable at least for me, a bit puzzled by it.

Another thing, I´ve heard from somewhere that one is to keep eyes open so that the light will keep one from falling asleep, but I´ve never experienced it as having such an effect.

Janne

[Taigu]

Re: eyes

Thank you Janne H, it is very important to keep your eyes open as much as possible. It sounds like a paradox, but with closed eyes there is much more to deal with for you give more power to feelings and inner images. Eyes softly and gently open balance naturally the so called outside and inside until the very frontier fades away.

Thank you for your trust and practice.

gassho


Taigu

[Dosho]

Re: eyes

Eyes shoukd be kept open during sitting. Just open, slighly. Not fixing. Not focused. This is what we call the gaze on the distant mountains. As we see without watching, we perceive everything, invite everything. You may sometimes close your eyes when you are a well seasoned sitter but then, you have to practice like Kannon and pay attention to what you hear, that will help you to keep your balance and not fall asleep.

Thank you Janne H, it is very important to keep your eyes open as much as possible. It sounds like a paradox, but with closed yeyes there is much more to deal with for you give more power to feelings and inner images. Eyes softly and gently open balance naturally the so called outside and inside until the very frontier fades away.

Thank you for your trust and practice.

gassho


Taigu

If I sit with eyes open I am much more likely to get sleepy or feel like I am going to fall over, find an imperfection in the wall that grabs my attention, or get totally lost in thoughts (sometimes overwhelming) that leave me anywhere but the present moment. When my eyes are closed I do not see images or shapes of any kind, only black. And in many ways the "blackness" is uncomfortable for me since I do not like to be in a pitch black room, always looking for some marker to gauge where I am. When I close my eyes thoughts drift in and out, but I don't tend to feel so bombarded with stiumli as I do with eyes open.

Given these things, would you still recommend I sit with eyes open?

Gassho,
Dosho