No Interruption To Shikantaza

**Jundo** · 07-16-2010, 04:26 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Life interrupts my Zazen, but where is this interruption?

My allergic rhinitis likes to kick in during morning Zazen. So my Zazen is usually punctuated by "AAAACCCHOOO!" I like to call it Sneezingtaza™. Just sitting, just sitting, AAAHHH AHHHH, just sit - AAACCHHHOOO!

Ahhhhh! SHIKANTAZA!

oh .. this post made me smile and cry at once ...

i think i will insist everyone read it always ... and make it as naturally part of their being as sneezing ...

he started getting ready for the day, fixing the bed, changing her clothes, etc. Of course, she kept passing by me, which I found really distracting. I mean, there I was trying to count the breaths and my attention kept drifting to her and the sounds of her activity. I felt more and more annoyed. Especially when she would occasionally stop and watch me. The final straw was when she literally bent down in front of me and said something like, "hello" in a manner that I usually find cute and endearing. In exasperation I said something like, "I'm trying to concentrate here!"

Oh, how many times I hear about folks who are exasperated because life is "not peaceful enough" and interfering with their sitting, with their hunt for peace and meaning.

Life never interferes ... even when it interferes.

Nothing is exasperating ... even at its most exasperating.

Life is never "not peaceful enough" ... even when anything but peaceful.

Rafael, please just continue to practice in this way, go this way, now and forever. You will be fine.

Nine Bows, Jundo

**pinoybuddhist** · 07-16-2010, 04:42 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Thank you, Jundo.

**Hoko Steve** · 07-16-2010, 05:36 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

its amazing how now and again i see posts that are exactly what i have been thinking. ok, so for me, its not a wife or a kid, but my cat.....yep, a four legged feline zen master. she is a loner cat who doesnt come around unless its on her terms, and even then it is only for a second.....until the zazen bell goes off, and then.......she becomes my best friend :roll: :lol: she wont leave me alone. climbs up my torso, smells my face, kneeds my clothes, (and my flesh). its the most bizarre thing i have ever seen.

so one day, it happened and i got super pissed off, (after all, i am trying to meditate here!! the nerve!!) and picked her up off my lap, set her next to me and said NO!!!!!! then she looked up with these pathetic eyes that said..."all i want is love!!!" and at that moment i realized it isnt all about me, and that i wasnt angry with the cat, but with the fact things werent how i wanted them. now i am learning to sit with it...its a challenge LOL

thanks for posting!

gassho,

steve

**disastermouse** · 07-16-2010, 05:45 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Has it made you stop wanting things to be different?

Chet

**Hoko Steve** · 07-16-2010, 06:33 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

nah, i still sometimes want things to be different, but i am learning to be ok with it how it is at the same time. :wink:

steve

**buddhistmama** · 07-16-2010, 10:36 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I really needed to hear this! I have 3 small children (ages 3-6) and two young puppies and I get so frustrated that I can't get 15 minutes of peace and quiet!! You have helped me see that quiet is not necessary and peace is readily available.

Jundo, thank you for bringing this to my attention!

April

**Taigu** · 07-16-2010, 11:31 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Thank you Rafael.

My limited understanding meets your big practice.

gassho

Taigu

**CraigfromAz** · 07-16-2010, 01:08 PM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

I am a little confused now. I can understand that sitting zazen while noise and distractions are going on is fine - maybe even an advantage (learning to let those distractions go as we sit shikintaza). But what I am inferring (maybe incorrectly) from this discussion is "zazen in front of the tv with the family is fine. If something interesting comes on tv, take a break and listen, then go back to zazen. If the kids have a question, go ahead and answer it, then go back to zazen. If the dog wants to go out, get up, let the dog out, come back to sitting. etc."

My limited understanding of shikintaza (from what I have read) is that we are trying to "be" our awareness and let go of small mind thoughts that tend to come up. This does not seem to be what is being described in this thread - this thread seems to be saying it is just fine to follow our small mind thoughts, act on those, then come back to zazen.

If what this thread is really saying is "it's better to sit with interruptions than to not sit at all" - I can grock that. But if this thread is saying "interruptions are fine, getting up and down from zazen is fine, it doesn't matter" - then I am confused. Comments?

Thanks,

Craig

**Taylor** · 07-16-2010, 02:42 PM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Originally posted by CraigfromAz

I am a little confused now. I can understand that sitting zazen while noise and distractions are going on is fine - maybe even an advantage (learning to let those distractions go as we sit shikintaza). But what I am inferring (maybe incorrectly) from this discussion is "zazen in front of the tv with the family is fine. If something interesting comes on tv, take a break and listen, then go back to zazen. If the kids have a question, go ahead and answer it, then go back to zazen. If the dog wants to go out, get up, let the dog out, come back to sitting. etc."

My limited understanding of shikintaza (from what I have read) is that we are trying to "be" our awareness and let go of small mind thoughts that tend to come up. This does not seem to be what is being described in this thread - this thread seems to be saying it is just fine to follow our small mind thoughts, act on those, then come back to zazen.

If what this thread is really saying is "it's better to sit with interruptions than to not sit at all" - I can grock that. But if this thread is saying "interruptions are fine, getting up and down from zazen is fine, it doesn't matter" - then I am confused. Comments?

Thanks,

Craig

Some of your examples I can agree with, others not so much

For instance: This morning during my sitting, the doorbell rang, and I was the only one available. Rather than let the person wait out my sitting, I got up and answered the door, showed them in, and told them my mother would be with them shortly. Then I went back to sitting. In the same sense, I had to excuse myself from an interview with Jundo today because the dog needed to be let in. Being very hot outside, could I let my dog wait? I think not. There's a manner of appropriateness and balance that needs to be established. If other's are suffering (in one form or another) because we just "can't be disturbed", then we are only being selfish.

If, on the other hand, we are disturbed because we find something more "interesting", the TV perhaps, and decide that zazen is less important, we are only being lazy and making excuses. Sit your zazen in a quiet place, but if your child/dog/cat/partner walks through, let them walk through. If they need something, do it, then go back to sitting. For the most part we try to remain seated and still, for that is often when our mind is most still. But when we have to get up and move, well, get up and move! Don't begrudge it, don't thank Buddha for the relief in your knees. Just get up and move, then sit again when you're done moving. :mrgreen:

Rambling again. In short: Life throws balls, frisbees, and occasionally rocks and baseball bats. If dodging it isn't an option, catch it. I don't think any zen master would fault you. Just make sure you know your reasons for moving aren't selfish!

A gassho and a half
Taylor

**Risho** · 07-16-2010, 03:26 PM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Originally posted by Taylor

...For instance: This morning during my sitting, the doorbell rang, and I was the only one available. Rather than let the person wait out my sitting, I got up and answered the door, showed them in, and told them my mother would be with them shortly. Then I went back to sitting. In the same sense, I had to excuse myself from an interview with Jundo today because the dog needed to be let in. Being very hot outside, could I let my dog wait? I think not. There's a manner of appropriateness and balance that needs to be established. If other's are suffering (in one form or another) because we just "can't be disturbed", then we are only being selfish.

......
Taylor

Another awesome thread

Now I understand what Suzuki Roshi says in "Not Always So" about the koan about a man who climbs to the top of a 100-foot pole. "If he stays on top, he is not the enlightened one. When he jumps off the top of the pole, he may be the enlightened one." (p. 17 - 18)

If we see life as interfering, then we are separating ourselves, and this is not our practice. We are life... life living us.

"For instance, when breakfast is ready, my wife hits some wooden clappers.... When I don't answe, I am on the top of the pole. I don't jump off. I believe I have something important to do at the top of the pole: "You shouldn't call me. You should wait." Or I may think, "This is very important! I am here, on the top of the pole! Don't you know that?" ... That is how we create problems. So the secret is to say "Yes!" and jump off from here. " p 18 -19

saying yes is being open and receptive doing what needs to be done, not doing what doesn't need to be done, but not adding any extra "ornaments".

Gassho everyone

Cyril

**Jundo** · 07-16-2010, 04:50 PM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Originally posted by CraigfromAz

I am a little confused now. I can understand that sitting zazen while noise and distractions are going on is fine - maybe even an advantage (learning to let those distractions go as we sit shikintaza). But what I am inferring (maybe incorrectly) from this discussion is "zazen in front of the tv with the family is fine. If something interesting comes on tv, take a break and listen, then go back to zazen.

I am going to offer a "both true at once" answer, like so many things in Zen Practice ..

Okay, most days, we’d best sit Zazen in a quiet room, with little noise and few distractions. The reason is simply that a peaceful, still, quiet environment helps us allow the mind to become peaceful, still and quiet, with thoughts and emotions drifting away as the mind settles down.

But, really, it takes two to tango with "distractions" ... things outside and, more importantly, your reaction inside to feel it is a "distraction" (the mosquito, for example, is just a mosquito doing his mosquito thing. It is your reaction that makes it a distraction). So, while we seek to sit in a "quiet room" ... we also, simultaneously, accept "just what is", sitting with what is. Really, there are no "perfectly optimal" rooms and situations and, even if they are, they don't last.

Quiet room sitting ... good Shikantaza. Noisy neighbor and kids sitting ... good Shikantaza. There is no "bad Shikantaza ... even the bad Shikantaza". However, when you can, sit in the quiet room. Cat jumps in your lap, keep sitting ... with the cat.

It is for this reason that maybe every two or three weeks or so, I recommend you sit Zazen in a truly disturbing place. At the below link, I am sitting Zazen in one of the busiest, brightest, noisiest parts of downtown Tokyo — to make the point that the true quiet room is within us as much as out. In fact, if we always need a calm and tranquil environment in order to reach the balance, stillness, ease, and freedom of this practice, then I believe Zazen loses much of its power. It is right at the eye of the storm that one can know stillness, and in the middle of chaos that we can taste peace.

So, for that reason, I hope everyone will sit, once in awhile, in a truly disturbing, disagreeable, ugly, noisy, smelly, busy, and distracting place. In a stinking garbage dump, next to a construction site with jackhammers pounding, at an Ozzy Osbourne concert, in a game room, while crushed in a crowded city bus or parked in a parking lot off a busy highway.

We can drop all thoughts of beautiful or ugly, moving or still, noisy or silent, chaotic or peaceful .. and just sit as what remains.

Yet, most days ... we sit in a quiet room, tv turned off, dog outside, mosquito repellent working..

Here are some links to a couple such "sit-a-longs" ...

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=15188

This also leads to a couple of other threads on "sitting with disturbances" ...

viewtopic.php?p=36597#p36597

And mosquitoes, achy legs and such as our Great Teachers ...

viewtopic.php?p=10701#p10701

Gassho, J

**sittingzen** · 07-16-2010, 07:51 PM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Thanks, Rafael, for this lovely post. I'm often in situations where a blaring television is on in the next room, and so forth while practicing zazen. When this first happened, I became agitated and extremely annoyed that -they- were interfering with MY time. I then realized reality is reality whether I choose to accept it or not. And if I'm sitting zazen with distraction, I just sit..and that's that.

Gassho,

Lu

**pcward** · 07-17-2010, 12:42 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

I was reminded of something that happened this morning as I was sitting by what Steve wrote about his cat.

I have a female greyhound, and usually she's lazy and sleeps while I'm doing my morning Zazen. This morning, however, she decided to peek into the bedroom and see what I was doing. I just kept sitting while she sniffed around for a minute and figured out what I was up to. Then she just returned to the living room and her bed. In the back of my mind somehow it all clicked that a) all beings truly are interconnected, and b) she knew what I was doing there on the cushion, so decided to leave me alone to sit.

It was truly remarkable. It made me think that what she does when she lays on her bed all day long is probably no different than human Shikantaza

Chris

**pinoybuddhist** · 07-17-2010, 01:38 AM

Re: No Interruption To Shikantaza

Originally posted by CraigfromAz

I am a little confused now. I can understand that sitting zazen while noise and distractions are going on is fine - maybe even an advantage (learning to let those distractions go as we sit shikintaza). But what I am inferring (maybe incorrectly) from this discussion is "zazen in front of the tv with the family is fine. If something interesting comes on tv, take a break and listen, then go back to zazen. If the kids have a question, go ahead and answer it, then go back to zazen. If the dog wants to go out, get up, let the dog out, come back to sitting. etc."

I don't know of anyone who claims to sit zazen in front of the tv with the family. I certainly wouldn't do it.

Originally posted by CraigfromAz

If what this thread is really saying is "it's better to sit with interruptions than to not sit at all" - I can grock that. But if this thread is saying "interruptions are fine, getting up and down from zazen is fine, it doesn't matter" - then I am confused. Comments?

Thanks,

Craig

Well, Jundo and Taylor's explanations say it very well. But I guess I'll attempt to explain in my own words (just take them with a grain of salt, okay?):

On the one hand, we should sit zazen in a quiet room with as little external distractions as possible. On the other hand, Life is rarely a quiet room with as little external distractions as possible. On the one hand, yes we should just keep sitting zazen when distractions come up. On the other hand, sometimes getting up and dealing with the distractions is zazen.

Anyway, my post wasn't about sitting zazen in front of the tv with the family. In fact, the other night was the more the exception than the rule since normally I do it when they're both asleep. And just to be clear: I'm not claiming that sitting facing your family (who are potentially distracting even while asleep) is better than sitting facing a blank wall. The reason I started sitting this way was to drive home to myself the lesson that Life is rarely ever as neat as a blank wall and rarely ever as quiet. Even when I sit facing the wall with my wife and child asleep, I can still hear them breathe, shift positions, snore, cry, whimper, etc. And while I normally do just sit with that, sometimes it is necessary to get up to change a full diaper instead of waiting for my tired wife (who needs more rest than I do) to do it.