Reading Dogen in the sunshine and wondering...

[Hannah]

Hi, this is my first post after my introduction. Just a brief query. In the foreword to Okumura Roshi's Realizing Genjokoan, the foreword writer, I think its Leighton(?) says, "There is an old Zen slogan that denigrates dependence on words and letters, instead empathizing direct pointing to mind and awareness."

I often wonder about this, does it bring to mind a particular old zen slogan to you and if so, source please?
Also is slogan a word often used in Buddhist teachings? I am aware of only seeing this word when Pema Chodron was discussing slogans, ( ..."driving all blames into Juan", anyone remember that? Funny stuff!) in particular. So I always figured it was a Tibetan thing.
Thoughts?
Hannah
SAT

[Shujin]

Good afternoon; I think the saying is from a poem which has been attributed to Bodhidarma:

A special transmission outside the scriptures,
Not founded upon words and letters.
By pointing directly to [one's] mind,
It lets one see into [one's own true] nature and [thus] attain Buddhahood.

I'm unsure whether Bodhidharma wrote or said such a thing, as many of our stories are apocryphal. I don't know what Leighton meant by the use of the word slogan, but I think it may hint at the complexity of studying texts in Zen. We sit, experiencing that which is beyond words and letters, yet study also has a valuable place in our tradition. These are my thoughts as an individual, so please treat them with a bit of skepticism.

Gassho,
Shujin
st/lah

[Jundo]

Hi,

As Shujin said, this "A special transmission outside the scriptures, Not founded upon words and letters" is attributed to Master Bodhidharma, although it is actually something developed later (there is a good historian's article tracing the history of its creation, which I can find if you are interested.)

I think that "slogan" is not used with any special Buddhist meaning here, and is just an English word for "something often said," just a "common saying."

And interesting thing about Dogen, however (and really also true about almost all old and modern Zen masters, thus they write so many words and books about this "not founded on words" teaching ):

A "well turned" phrase can hold Zen Wisdom, thus Dogen was a great word-smith. A well expressed Koan or Sutra story or Dogen's passages in Shobogenzo can express Zen truth to the discerning eye. One must hear the silence in the words.

Gassho, J

stlah

sorry to run long

PS - For real Zen history "wonks" only, the historian's article: Heine & Wright, The Koan, 2000: ― The disputed place of "a special transmission outside of the scriptures" in Ch‘an, 1996

https://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays...ansmission.htm

[Kokuu]

I am aware of only seeing this word when Pema Chodron was discussing slogans, ( ..."driving all blames into Juan", anyone remember that? Funny stuff!)

I love the Tibetan mind training (lojong) teachings such as 'drive all blames into one'.

Zen teacher Norman Fischer wrote a book talking about how those teachings can be used in Zen: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...-in-compassion


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Ryumon]

Reading Dogen in the sunshine and wondering...

I just looked this up, and I found that the audiobook version of this is available on Audible, at least in the UK, for free if you have an Audible subscription.

There are quite a few dharma books, including a lot from Shambhala, available with an Audible subscription.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat Lah