Why do we chant?

[gaurdianaq]

I don't mean why do we recite the heart sutra, or the verse of atonement or the metta chant.

Why do we say it with the timings and emphasis that make it a chant?

I find it to be... distracting... I find myself hearing the individual syllables rather than the words/message being said. Perhaps that's the point? Or perhaps I find it distracting due to an attachment of how I'm used to hearing things be said/spoken...


Evan,
Sat today!

[Kokuu]

I find it to be... distracting... I find myself hearing the individual syllables rather than the words/message being said. Perhaps that's the point? Or perhaps I find it distracting due to an attachment of how I'm used to hearing things be said/spoken...

I think the latter is true for me, Evan.

When I first came to Treeleaf, I had heard The Heart Sutra chanted and recited in Tibetan and Theravadin traditions and the addition of the banging of the mukogyu was pretty off-putting.

But, eight years later I am quite fond of it!

Why do we do things as we do? Most of it seems to come from tradition and then individual sanghas make their own variations on that.

Chanting rather than reciting also seems to have specific physiological effects as I understand it that affect the body and mind in positive ways including a sense of belonging to a particular group or traditions: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-...ssion/12046736

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Jundo]

I don't mean why do we recite the heart sutra, or the verse of atonement or the metta chant.

Why do we say it with the timings and emphasis that make it a chant?

I find it to be... distracting... I find myself hearing the individual syllables rather than the words/message being said. Perhaps that's the point? Or perhaps I find it distracting due to an attachment of how I'm used to hearing things be said/spoken...


Evan,
Sat today!

Hi Evan,

Well, first, we study and understand the meaning. The Heart Sutra is basically about Emptiness, and is rich in teachings. The Verse of Atonement and Metta Verses don't require much explaining as to what they say.

But there is something musical about chanting, hypnotic to the beat, like any song. There is also movement involved quite often, and a hypnotic beat. A Buddhist Ceremony is basically a rave! In music and dance, we put down the meaning, and pour ourself into the sound and rhythm. We feel the meaning of the Heart Sutra, and the music of the Verses of Atonement and Metta are meant to sink into our bones.

That's why we chant. Maybe you just have to develop an ear for the music?

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seikan]

Hi Evan,

Great question—for me, when I read a sutra, etc., I tend to think about and analyze it, yet when I chant that same piece (or even simply listen to another person chant it), I just let it wash over and through me. I find chanting to be a great way to punctuate the start of Zazen and other practices as it helps to reset the mind and prepare one's space (physically and mentally) for whatever is about to happen next.

Just my 1.5 cents.

Gassho,
Rob

-st-


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[Juki]

I find it to be... distracting... I find myself hearing the individual syllables rather than the words/message being said. Perhaps that's the point? Or perhaps I find it distracting due to an attachment of how I'm used to hearing things be said/spoken...


Evan,
Sat today!

Remember, all things are expressions of emptiness and embody: "no sight, sound, smell, taste, touch or object of mind." Seems like you're getting hung up in sound. It's an expression of emptiness.

Gassho,
Juki

Sat today and lah

[gaurdianaq]

Maybe you just have to develop an ear for the music?

Gassho, J

STLah

This honestly makes a lot of sense to me. When I was thinking about this one of the first thing that came to mind was a church band, and the different styles I've heard.

Perhaps maybe someday I will gain an ear for the music, perhaps I won't... But it might be a good way to practice not being too attached to how I think it should sound.

Thank you to everyone who has replied so far, I greatly appreciate it!


Evan,
Sat today!

[Jundo]

Thank you to everyone who has replied so far, I greatly appreciate it!

Part of zen practice in a monastic setting or even in a short retreat is to face certain activities ... certain rituals, arcane customs, cleaning the toilets, washing the floors while running, getting up in the middle of the night to sit, etc. etc. ... which challenges what we want, like or approve of precisely so that we can leap beyond our own aversions and attractions.

So, this is such a Koan for you.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kokuu]

Great question—for me, when I read a sutra, etc., I tend to think about and analyze it, yet when I chant that same piece (or even simply listen to another person chant it), I just let it wash over and through me.

That is a good point, Rob.

I remember when Taigu was here he said that when chanting we should just chant and I asked if we should focus on the meaning of the words. He said no, just chant.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Doshin]

At first chanting seemed odd now it is peaceful whether in English or Japanese. As said above I don’t try to interpret, just hear. Also some folks are great chanters and I appreciate their voice, me I am less fluid

Doshin
St

[Onka]

I don't mean why do we recite the heart sutra, or the verse of atonement or the metta chant.

Why do we say it with the timings and emphasis that make it a chant?

I find it to be... distracting... I find myself hearing the individual syllables rather than the words/message being said. Perhaps that's the point? Or perhaps I find it distracting due to an attachment of how I'm used to hearing things be said/spoken...


Evan,
Sat today!

For me it's a blessing. My singing voice sucks.
Gassho
Onka
Sat today

[Tairin]

I find the rhythmic pace and musicality helps me memorize and internalize the words.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Margherita]

Hello!
It is hypnotic and I find it so good. The first time I entered a zendo, I sat till the end and then the sutras started: all the different voices conbined into one, an experience I still tresure.

When I chant (I hope I will eventually learn the japanese versions by heart) I try not to focus on meaning, just on sound and the here and now. Hence, I find the japanese version perfect for this, I get more distracted if I chant in English or Italian.

Gassho,
Mags
ST

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[gaurdianaq]

Part of zen practice in a monastic setting or even in a short retreat is to face certain activities ... certain rituals, arcane customs, cleaning the toilets, washing the floors while running, getting up in the middle of the night to sit, etc. etc. ... which challenges what we want, like or approve of precisely so that we can leap beyond our own aversions and attractions.

So, this is such a Koan for you.

Gassho, J

STLah

Hmmmm, I think I'm going to and sit along with the recording of zazenkai again next week and just start by listening to the chants, and really try and feel them. And sit with whatever emotions/feelings come up in response. Thank you again.


Evan,
Sat today!

[Jundo]

At first chanting seemed odd now it is peaceful whether in English or Japanese. As said above I don’t try to interpret, just hear. Also some folks are great chanters and I appreciate their voice, me I am less fluid

Doshin
St

As you know, we often get the question too "why Japanese or Chinese" since few folks understand it (even modern Japanese can barely make heads or tales of the Heart Sutra, written in 1000 year old hybrid Chinese mispronounced in ancient Japanese and with sentence structure closer to classical Chinese too!) . There are several reasons: One is a simply honoring of our "roots," but that is least important. Another is that, for most folks, it makes the sound even more abstract, even more removed from meaning, allowing one to forget intellectualizing, and to pour oneself ... and find oneself ... in the sound and rhythm even more.

Now ya want a song with a beat, and not sure what most of it means? It is actually the Heart Sutra if you listen closely, but then again, everything is!

https://youtu.be/ivhauEr3KxU

Gassho, J

STLah

[JMGinPDX]

The few times I’ve sat with Great Vow Monastery, they do the “Robe of Liberation” and Shantideva’s Bodhisattva Vow as actual songs, put to music with a very standard Western harmony (played on a small pump organ), the robe chant in particular sounds very hymn-like (coming from a former preachers kid ). Apparently one of the priests is a musician and added the musical elements. As a musician myself I can appreciate that, but it’s definitely different from the standard kokyo fare.