Experience of Oneness

[Toni]

Hello everyone!


After some time of just reading the posts at Treeleaf, I decided to join it, because I don't really have a local sangha that could help me with the struggles on my path.

I would like to ask you for your opinion and advice on something that happened to me a few days ago.
So, one morning, after doing zazen, I went out into the street and started walking to my university, like I do every day. I continued letting go of thoughts as I did in my zazen. All of a sudden, everything changed. I felt that I was trees, walls, fences, other people, animals... Everything I encountered was my life and I couldn't separate myself from it. Also, the thoughts that came to me where now just a scenery of my life, like everything else, but they were not apart from me - I was them and they were me.
A deep peace enveloped all Life. But even though every thing I encountered was me, they were also themselves, they had their body, they were doing their own things. Even though I was Life, I could still have been run over by a truck - the oneness couldn't prevent cause and effect which made everything happen.

I think that this happened because I really believed that I had nowhere else to go but be with my life. Everything that was happening at that present moment of my life was undeniable - it was real, whether I had positive or negative thoughts about it.
I was reminded of Dogen's words upon his arrival from China - "I simply, with my master Tendō Nyojō, quietly verified that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical. From now on, I cannot be misled by anyone. I have returned home empty-handed."
I really felt that the undeniable truth that was living itself was itself even if I liked it or disliked it.
"A flower falls, even though we love it; And a weed grows, even though we do not love it." - the true reality is independent of our thinking about it, we cannot stop it, it forever unfolds this very moment in which are included all our thoughts and all the beings.

But as soon as I started analyzing it and thinking about how I need to tell someone about it, as soon as I took it as a sort of an achievement, it was gone, I once again separated the reality, even though it was not actually separated - I was just not aware of non-separateness.
Also, after the experience started leaving me, I started grasping for it with both of my hands, just to bathe in it again.

Maybe all of this was just my deluded thinking, but it doesn't matter, because even if we have such experiences, they soon fade away from our memory and leave us alone, with no special toys, to just live out the reality of our life that we cannot escape from.
Even if great enlightenment comes with such an experience, in the end it amounts to nothing, because we still have to live out each fresh moment of our life - and that is the real enlightenment - “Satori has no beginning. Practice has no end!” as Sawaki roshi said.

All of this is based on my still-green practice, so please help me correct it if I'm totally off the mark.

Thank you everyone _()_


Antonio

Sat today

[Jundo]

Hello everyone!


After some time of just reading the posts at Treeleaf, I decided to join it, because I don't really have a local sangha that could help me with the struggles on my path.

I would like to ask you for your opinion and advice on something that happened to me a few days ago.
So, one morning, after doing zazen, I went out into the street and started walking to my university, like I do every day. I continued letting go of thoughts as I did in my zazen. All of a sudden, everything changed. I felt that I was trees, walls, fences, other people, animals... Everything I encountered was my life and I couldn't separate myself from it. Also, the thoughts that came to me where now just a scenery of my life, like everything else, but they were not apart from me - I was them and they were me.
A deep peace enveloped all Life. But even though every thing I encountered was me, they were also themselves, they had their body, they were doing their own things. Even though I was Life, I could still have been run over by a truck - the oneness couldn't prevent cause and effect which made everything happen.

I think that this happened because I really believed that I had nowhere else to go but be with my life. Everything that was happening at that present moment of my life was undeniable - it was real, whether I had positive or negative thoughts about it.
I was reminded of Dogen's words upon his arrival from China - "I simply, with my master Tendō Nyojō, quietly verified that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical. From now on, I cannot be misled by anyone. I have returned home empty-handed."
I really felt that the undeniable truth that was living itself was itself even if I liked it or disliked it.
"A flower falls, even though we love it; And a weed grows, even though we do not love it." - the true reality is independent of our thinking about it, we cannot stop it, it forever unfolds this very moment in which are included all our thoughts and all the beings.

Hi Toni,

Welcome again.

Toni, your very powerful description of your insight seems very good, filled with much wisdom and truth. You describe this very well. The hard borders between oneself and all the rest of the world soften, you realized the shared identity, wholeness and mutual dependence of all things. Yet, they are they and you are you too. Lovely. Yes, I believe that you had a very important and valuable experience, or opening, a treasured look at another way of knowing life. (It is sometimes hard to say that something was "seen" because, when the borders fully drop away, seer and that which is seen are not two, but your description sounds more like a softening of the borders). I also believe that your interpretation of all this is very wise. Lovely. Cherish this, keep this in your bones.

Now move on to whatever is next in life, and do not chase it. If one has such an experience again, that is good. If it is never again, or never for a long time, that is good too.

However, through sitting Zazen, this Wisdom and awareness will subtly sink deep into your bones, even if the experience is not so obvious as this time.

This is a topic where Soto Zen folks usually say to take such an moment as a reference, a lesson, but do not try to stay there, keep it forever or chase after it. A famous story is told about Shunryu Suzuki Roshi was asked about a similar experience by a student, and Suzuki said it may be important, but now "go wash the dishes."

I sometimes say that it is like hiking a mountain. Sometimes a vast and beautiful vista will be seen. The obstacles drop away, and one can see endlessly, and the whole mountain and the walker and the walking are one. However, we do not stay and stop there, but move forward with the walk. In fact, the Whole Mountain, not only that one vista, is it, and the walking itself is it. So, keep walking whatever you encounter next. Every blade of grass is it. Every mud hole or poison ivy is it too. Garbage that somebody left on the mountain is it too. So, do not get caught only by the wonderful vista.

I also use "bus trip to Grand Canyon" analogy ...

Different folks approach and define all this in their own way. In our Soto View, some folks way way way overvalue an experience of timelessly momentary "Kensho" ... as the be all and end all (beyond being or ending) of "Enlightenment" ... and chase after it like some gold ring on the merry go round. For Soto folks, that is like missing the point of the trip. For Soto Folks, when we realize such ... every moment of the Buddha-Bus trip, the scenery out the windows (both what we encounter as beautiful and what appears ugly), the moments of good health and moments of passing illness, the highway, the seats and windows, all the other passengers on the Bus who appear to be riding with us, when we board and someday when we are let off ... the whole Trip ... is all the Buddha-Bus, all Enlightenment and Kensho, all the "destination" beyond "coming" or "going" or "getting there", when realized as such (Kensho). This ride is what we make it.

...

Most folks just don't pierce that fact and are lost in delusion about the Nature of the trip. They may think the point is just to get to some destination, the "Grand Canyon" as the goal of the ride. Most sentient being "passengers" on this ride just don't realize that, feeling homesick, car sick, separated from all the other passengers, revolted or attracted to what they see ... filling the whole trip with thoughts of greed and anger, spoiling the journey, making a mess of the bus and harming themselves and the other riders, unhappy until they get to the "promised destination" somewhere down the road. They may even get to the Grand Canyon, snap a picture and buy a souvenir, then wonder "is that all it is"? They do not realize is that the whole trip is WHAT IS!

So, Toni, please go wash your dishes. See what is in front of you, and enjoy what comes next on the trip.

Would you also do my one favor? Would you introduce yourself to the folks here?

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16445-Greetings-by-new-folks-%28October%29

Thank you. Also, look at the other information I sent you in my "WELCOME" message yesterday.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Ryushi]

I felt that I was trees, walls, fences, other people, animals... Everything I encountered was my life and I couldn't separate myself from it.

I had an experience very much like this, once, just as I was beginning to explore Zen. It just came to me as I was walking in the salt flats in SF Bay. I wasn't seeking it. I wasn't trying to experience nirvana or satori or kensho or anything. I wouldn't even have known what those are at that time (or even if I know now!)

And I don't try to seek it out again. Like Jundo says, I do my best to just go wash the dishes.

Sat today. Gassho,

[Graham F]

This is a really nice description of what you experienced Toni. Thank you for sharing it.

Most folks just don't pierce that fact and are lost in delusion about the Nature of the trip. They may think the point is just to get to some destination, the "Grand Canyon" as the goal of the ride. Most sentient being "passengers" on this ride just don't realize that, feeling homesick, car sick, separated from all the other passengers, revolted or attracted to what they see ... filling the whole trip with thoughts of greed and anger, spoiling the journey, making a mess of the bus and harming themselves and the other riders, unhappy until they get to the "promised destination" somewhere down the road. They may even get to the Grand Canyon, snap a picture and buy a souvenir, then wonder "is that all it is"? They do not realize is that the whole trip is WHAT IS!

This teaching is really helpful Jundo, thank you.

Gassho

Graham
Sat

[Toni]

Thank you once again everyone.
I'm glad I'm on the right path. I will just continue to wash the dishes and do my homework.

I saw the message Jundo - I have been reading the words and watched a few videos of your teaching on shikantaza and they have been of great help to my practice.
Also, when I find time, I will post my introduction and change my picture.

_()_
Antonio

Sat today

[Kyonin]

Hi Toni,

After some time practicing Shikantaza, these experiences come sometimes. They are wonderful because we can touch the Wholeness of live and be part of it all, setting thoughts aside and even setting the sense of self aside. All I can say is that it feels like Unity.

Now, unless Jundo or my fellow priests correct me, our Zen way makes it clear that we should not look to have these experiences. If they come, that's fine. If they never come back, that's fine too. We just sit loosing all the wants and ideals. Then we leave the zafu and go to work, tend the needs of our families and pay the bills.

Thank you for sharing.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Shinshi]

This basic experience first happened to me back in the late 80s when I first started sitting.

It happened in a shopping mall. I thought it was cool and amazing at the time, now I think of it is as cool but kind of distracting.

But when I think back to that moment I always laugh a little to myself. Of all the places to have an experience like that my life chose to manifest it in a freaking shopping mall. At the time a temple of consumerism.

Life is funny.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Toni]

Yes Kyonin, I agree.
Now, after encountering such an experience in my life, and witnessing it's impermanence, I can more easily see that satori should not at all be the goal of our practice.
Everything changes each moment, and if we think that after getting satori we don't need to practice anymore, we don't see the reality, because we still have to live our life, for as long as the Now is nowing itself
It is always just as it is, we just have to give it a warm hug, and allow it to be, without wanting it to match the thoughts that are currently going through our head which are constantly changing, and are also just as they are (they also get to be hugged )
Also, Jundo said the same thing as you.

Shinshi, I think that's the best place for such an experience because all those people in the mall realize their Buddha-nature with you.
I agree that the experience is a bit, or actually very, distracting
It's as when skiers train steadily for a long time, so they can go to the Olympics, but then they fall and break their leg while training, and are set back almost to where they started.
Good thing is, unlike skiers, we are always at the beginning so it's ok.

Gassho,
Antonio

Sat (before chat) today

[Jishin]

Hi,

Wonderful!

I don't remember exactly how a Zen saying goes but I will try to paraphrase it:

In the beginning of Zen, 2.
Then comes 1.
Then 2 again.
Just this.

Discouraging, I know. [emoji848][emoji854][emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Frank Murray]

Experience of Oneness

nowhere else to go but be with my life.

Hi Toni,

I think having this insight is a beautiful thing. What the insight ultimately means, we can’t say (cannot ultimately know)... and that’s ok.

The peace and inspiration felt and understood from these insights is always a blessing.

Gassho,

Frank

Sat today LAH



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IanG]

Hi Toni,

Thanks for your post - it's a beautiful description, you really bring it alive.

I had a somewhat similar experience during a silent retreat this summer. I was sitting on a log in a wood looking around me - tall trees swaying in the wind, leaves dancing in the sun, soft molds and barks and the sounds of birds and insects - and felt overcome by a sense of oneness with everything around me, a part of the natural processes of growing and disintegrating, living and dying. I was sort of released (by this and some other experiences in sitting and metta practice) into a place were I felt a profound joy and freedom the lasted for several days, over the whole course of the retreat. And this was at a time when my health was pretty bad, and I'd strongly considered dropping out of the retreat on the first day.

I find it interesting that several other people on this thread (Todd, Shinshi) describe having experiences like this soon after beginning to practice (as it was for me too). I wonder if this is a common pattern.

Ian
Sat today

[Doshin]

I have read this thread with interest and found it informative learning of others journeys. I have practiced meditation off and on a long time and never had a similar experience. For a moment, somewhere along this thread, I wondered what I have done wrong in my practice to not be so graced! I remember when I started to meditate in the late 60s when meditating was coming to life in North America I anticipated such an experience if I practiced hard. It did not come and I drifted away from the practice thinking it has no bebefit. However, the experiences shared in this thread have returned in my thoughts a few times in the last day or so. Thus I have returned here to learn more from others.

Ian’s experience brought to light this morning my basic perspective of my place in this life. I have spent much time wondering the mountains, deserts and prairies and nowI live most days within those landscapes. I have always had a sense that I was part of, not separate from, the natural world. When I “analyze” that feeling I assume it is partly my training and life experience practicing ecology, my passion and fascination with nature that has been part of my core since my first memories and maybe my practice of meditation over the decades. So maybe I have not missed out. It is all good.

Thank you everyone for your sharing. It allowed me to be introspective. Now my wife wants me to chop wood and carry water so I must put this digital world down for now.

Enjoy and Gasso
Doshin
St

[Toni]

Hi Doshin, don't worry, you can't miss out on anything.


"My hand is

tired of fanning,

but where should I set it?"

-Ryokan


Gassho,
Antonio

Sat today

[Lex]

Hi - I've had a few experiences like this in the past. I got a bit too excited about them and then started to try and 'chase' that feeling not realising the irony of attaching to something in zen practice.

Now I think of them as a useful insight but nothing more.

Gassho,

Lex


Sat today

[Jishin]

Hi,

There is no attaining with nothing to attain. There is no insight whatsoever other than there is no insight whatsoever. It just is. Chop wood carry water for the benefit of others. Then do it some more.

My computer has been acting up for a week or two at work. Gotta go deal with it again. Maybe smash it.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_