deleted(or topic changed I guess)

[will]

Thanks for your posts.

Gassho

[Yugen]

Re: This Zazen is great

Will,
Thanks for raising this topic. I am very grateful to have found this "shikantaza" stuff. I would like to say how grateful I am, but then gratitude and attraction to a style of practice is itself attachment, so my response is "just sit!" I appreciate Nishijima's statement on the webcast to "just sit" - it is such a profound concept. The challenge I have accepted as of late is to sit when I do not want to - when I am tired, impatient, agitated, or feeling emotions and my first instinct is to say "I don't need this right now." Shikantaza is not just for fair weather sailing, but also for times when the waves of the mind build up to storm force. The imagery of the waves and water is appropriate here - the nature of water does not change and waves are part of the water. The waves will pass and subside, but the nature of water will never change. This sangha is an essential part of my practice as well. The ability to share and engage in dialogue with you is essential.

Gassho,
Alex

[Ryumon]

Re: This Zazen is great

It's not supposed to be great, it's supposed to be boring.

Kirk

[Fuken]

Re: This Zazen is great

If body and mind are droped off, what is booring or great?

It's easy to want to judge your ZaZen as sompthing.
Harder to just let it be zaZen.

~Gassho,
Jordan

[will]

Re: This Zazen is great

deleted

[Kent]

Re: This Zazen is great

Well i don't know if my practice is good but i do sit every day, and am learning more about practice than i ever thought possible. My thanks to Treeleaf, Jundo and all the good sangha members. Gassho Kent

[will]

del

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[Stephanie]

Re: This Zazen is great

I was feeling intimate at the time

Resisting impulse to make crass joke... resisting... resisting...

:mrgreen:

[will]

Re: This Zazen

del

[will]

del

del

Gassho Will

[Jundo]

Re: This Zazen is great

If body and mind are droped off, what is booring or great?

It's easy to want to judge your ZaZen as sompthing.
Harder to just let it be zaZen.

~Gassho,
Jordan

Well, I might put it this way ...

Dropping all judgments, and thoughts of "good" or "bad" ... is very very GOOD!

Gassho, Jundo

[will]

Re: deleted

I was having a bit of an off morning this morning. I didn't want to cause more karma. Smile

The intimacy thing still stands. And so does enjoying yourself.

Can't see the links or pics btw Harry (proxy server).

G,W

[Jundo]

Re: deleted(or topic changed I guess)

Hey, but I liked your post.

Gassho, Jundo

Ps - Yes, we can 'like things' beyond 'like' or 'dislike' ! Or even beyond 'things' or 'no things'!!

[Charles]

Re: This Zazen is great

It's not supposed to be great, it's supposed to be boring.

If body and mind are droped off, what is booring or great?

It's easy to want to judge your ZaZen as sompthing.
Harder to just let it be zaZen.

(I think) I see where both of you are coming from. But the idea that practice is supposed to be this way or that way -- or that we should just drop what it's supposed to be like and just let it be zazen -- doesn't make it that way. Sometimes I get up from sitting and I feel great. Sometimes I get up from sitting and feel like crap. Sometimes I really enjoy sitting and sometimes it drives me so mad I want to jump up from the cushion and scream. It isn't a matter of wanting it to be a certain way, or of wanting to judge it. These feelings come up whether I (we? or is that presumptuous?) want them to or not.

Does that mean I'm doing it wrong?

--Charles

[Jundo]

Re: This Zazen is great

... But the idea that practice is supposed to be this way or that way -- or that we should just drop what it's supposed to be like and just let it be zazen -- doesn't make it that way. Sometimes I get up from sitting and I feel great. Sometimes I get up from sitting and feel like crap. Sometimes I really enjoy sitting and sometimes it drives me so mad I want to jump up from the cushion and scream. It isn't a matter of wanting it to be a certain way, or of wanting to judge it. These feelings come up whether I (we? or is that presumptuous?) want them to or not.

Does that mean I'm doing it wrong?

--Charles

Hi Charles,

Allowing things to just be the way they are, no judging, not resisting, being with the flow, allowing 'happy' days to be happy and 'sad' days to be sad, all while dropping all idea of 'happy' and 'sad', whether really enjoying or really not enjoying ... fully dropping away any and all thought of doing Zazen 'right' or doing it 'wrong' ... THIS IS DOING IT RIGHT. And when you are doing it right, it will usually feel like you are doing it right, for there is no resistance, and a great sense of balance.

Fighting things, wishing things were some other way that how they are, judging, resisting, going against the grain and the flow, wishing 'sad' days were happy or 'happy' days were happier ... filled with a sense of self bumping up against all the other 'selfs', with a mind held by thoughts of doing Zazen 'right' or doing it 'wrong' ... THIS IS DOING ZAZEN WRONG. And when you are doing it wrong, it will usually feel like you are doing it wrong, for there is resistance, and a sense of imbalance.

But as well, even at those times when Zazen feels 'wrong', when there is resistance or imbalance ... it is still 'right', still 'Zazen', still just what it is. It cannot be wrong.

Yes, that is a Koan. Is it clear? Please really really penetrate in your body and mind what I just wrote.

Gassho, Jundo