WW2 question

[Hoshuku]

Critique my response to a question by a client today please.

It was asked on a day tour of various Japanese religious sites which I am paid to be a tour guide.

She has been sitting with a physical midwestern sangha for 2 years and asked how Japanese Buddhism became so morally compromised in WW2.

I replied that Buddhism has two philosophical threads, everything is transient and everything is precious. A emphasis on transience (and loss of the precious) can lead to the attitude that nothing matters with an attendant loss of morality.

I wonder if I could have done better.

Bows,
Hoshuku
Satlah

[Jundo]

Hi Hoshuku,

The sensationalist book "Zen at War," with its ideological agenda aside ... the actual situation was that there were very VERY few truly nationalistic, militaristic Buddhists before WWII. Very few. It is important to remember that most Japanese (not just Buddhists) were limited in their information and understanding to the government controlled press (pre-internet) and propaganda, so believed that Japan was under threat and attack from foreign powers, and was "liberating" its Asian brothers and sisters from Western colonialization and oppression (which is half true, as most of the countries of Asia were Western colonies and Japan was under threat.) The typical Japanese thought that Japan was on the side of good, and knew NOTHING about any Japanese military abuses and soldiers run amuck at Nanjing or the like.

So, rather than jingoists and rabid nationalists, you had a lot of Japanese who were either (1) mildly patriotic, like in America right after 9-11, (2) with a distaste for war, but having a "support the troops in the field" ... often their own sons or parishioners ... attitude, or (3) keeping their mouth shut because such is the nature of samsara, plus protesting anything was a sure way to have the Japanese secret police come to seize your temple and toss you in prison. I gathered this from many conversations with Japanese alive at the time during my last decades living in Japan. People who opened their mouths were tortured.

That is what I would say. Buddhism was not "morally compromised." In fact, even the Buddha in India, and the Buddhists of China, needed to keep their mouth closed when the King, Emperor or local war lord went into battle. The most the Buddha ever did is counsel that war should be avoided where possible and, when not possible, that one should act with restraint.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Jundo]

PS - I have written about what actual historians think of Brian Victoria's extreme assertions in his "Zen at War" books: https://web.archive.org/web/20170925...r-jundo-cohen/

Also, about his mud tossing attack on Kodo Sawaki, with its cherry picking facts and extreme mistranslations: http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/...JundoCohen.pdf

[KatherineS]

Just to relate a personal story:
I'm a third generation Japanese American and heard many stories from my father who was an interpreter for the American army in Japan and from my grandparents telling me what the relatives in Japan went through. They were Nichiren Buddhist. I have a picture of my grandparent's relatives who were naval officers who died during the war. My father said that when he went to visit his Japanese relatives right after the war ended, there was a lot of fear because he was in an American uniform; the relatives really thought America would colonize Japan and treat Japan harshly, especially since my grandparents in America were in a relocation camp in Wyoming. It took a while for good information to come out. Many years later, some of my Japanese relatives came to visit us in Southern California, and they mentioned that in the end, they realized that America wasn't evil....although they heard things in the news that America could be a little dangerous. Two of the relatives, when we picked them up at the airport and got on the freeway, they kept their head down below the window. When we asked why they did that, they said that the Japanese news reported that people shoot guns on the freeway in Los Angeles and they thought it was a frequent occurrence! Sometimes we don't realize how limited our information is.

Gassho,
Katherine
Satlah

[Hoshuku]

Just to relate a personal story:
I'm a third generation Japanese American and heard many stories from my father who was an interpreter for the American army in Japan and from my grandparents telling me what the relatives in Japan went through. They were Nichiren Buddhist. I have a picture of my grandparent's relatives who were naval officers who died during the war. My father said that when he went to visit his Japanese relatives right after the war ended, there was a lot of fear because he was in an American uniform; the relatives really thought America would colonize Japan and treat Japan harshly, especially since my grandparents in America were in a relocation camp in Wyoming. It took a while for good information to come out. Many years later, some of my Japanese relatives came to visit us in Southern California, and they mentioned that in the end, they realized that America wasn't evil....although they heard things in the news that America could be a little dangerous. Two of the relatives, when we picked them up at the airport and got on the freeway, they kept their head down below the window. When we asked why they did that, they said that the Japanese news reported that people shoot guns on the freeway in Los Angeles and they thought it was a frequent occurrence! Sometimes we don't realize how limited our information is.

Gassho,
Katherine
Satlah

Very good points, Katherine.

I’m often dealing with widely believed myths and other misinformation dealing with overseas tourists in Tokyo. They range from the negative, ‘Do you have ambulances in Japan?’, to the wildly optimistic view that Japan is living in 2050. In relation to this topic, many believe that Zen is widely practiced and dominant in Japan culture. Also that the Japanese weren’t quite as bad as the Nazis in WW2 but close. I have to answer instantly and succinctly for the job but it’s not skillful to attack misconceptions head on. Add to that my 38 years as a high school teacher. This all results in brief authoritative sounding statements from someone described in my profile as practicing Zen Buddhism. Hence my curiosity as to how my explanation sounded.

Bows,
Hoshuku,
Satlah

[Hoshuku]

Hi Hoshuku,

The sensationalist book "Zen at War," with its ideological agenda aside ... the actual situation was that there were very VERY few truly nationalistic, militaristic Buddhists before WWII. Very few. It is important to remember that most Japanese (not just Buddhists) were limited in their information and understanding to the government controlled press (pre-internet) and propaganda, so believed that Japan was under threat and attack from foreign powers, and was "liberating" its Asian brothers and sisters from Western colonialization and oppression (which is half true, as most of the countries of Asia were Western colonies and Japan was under threat.) The typical Japanese thought that Japan was on the side of good, and knew NOTHING about any Japanese military abuses and soldiers run amuck at Nanjing or the like.

So, rather than jingoists and rabid nationalists, you had a lot of Japanese who were either (1) mildly patriotic, like in America right after 9-11, (2) with a distaste for war, but having a "support the troops in the field" ... often their own sons or parishioners ... attitude, or (3) keeping their mouth shut because such is the nature of samsara, plus protesting anything was a sure way to have the Japanese secret police come to seize your temple and toss you in prison. I gathered this from many conversations with Japanese alive at the time during my last decades living in Japan. People who opened their mouths were tortured.

That is what I would say. Buddhism was not "morally compromised." In fact, even the Buddha in India, and the Buddhists of China, needed to keep their mouth closed when the King, Emperor or local war lord went into battle. The most the Buddha ever did is counsel that war should be avoided where possible and, when not possible, that one should act with restraint.

Gassho, J
stlah

All good stuff but way too deep for this context..

She’s operating at the urban myth level of everyone knows that Japan is Zen and were morally unhinged psychopaths in WW2. I’m usually operating at this level, I rarely meet anyone who has anything beyond surface knowledge of Japan. The oddity here was that she is sitting in a sangha of some kind back in the USA.

What I have to be careful of is that my profile describes me as practicing Zen Buddhism + I’m paid to know stuff + 38 years of high school teaching has left me with a manner that either inspires confidence or gets under people’s skin. Hence my curiosity as to how my summary sounded.

Bows,
Hoshuku,
Satlah

[Jundo]

All good stuff but way too deep for this context..

She’s operating at the urban myth level of everyone knows that Japan is Zen and were morally unhinged psychopaths in WW2. I’m usually operating at this level, I rarely meet anyone who has anything beyond surface knowledge of Japan. The oddity here was that she is sitting in a sangha of some kind back in the USA.

What I have to be careful of is that my profile describes me as practicing Zen Buddhism + I’m paid to know stuff + 38 years of high school teaching has left me with a manner that either inspires confidence or gets under people’s skin. Hence my curiosity as to how my summary sounded.

Bows,
Hoshuku,
Satlah

On the other hand, Stewart, for a time years ago I was the lowest ranking lawyer on the legal team representing Australian, UK, Dutch, USA and other POWS in their suit again the Japanese government for their treatment in the POW camps during WWII. There was often sheer sadism, plus soldiers running amuck (or commanded to do so) at places such as Nanjing. So, there was what can only be described as "morally unhinged" and simply inhuman behavior on the part of some Japanese troops and others during WWII. That much is true.

However, I have never heard a case of specifically Buddhist clergy acting so (maybe some got caught up in it, I don't know), nor any of the Buddhist sects advocating for such behavior. In fact, the average Japanese knew little if anything about what was happening in the POW camps or overseas battlefields.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Bion]

I think you gave a good answer, really. I don't know if I would choose transience alone to focus on, but in my case, I think it would be something like "it is quite easy for someone to twist certain buddhist ideas, like for example, the emptiness of all things, the subjective nature of all perceptions (including good and evil) or the concept of Absolute, a reality in which there is no separation between things, including self and other, and thus no birth or death, therefore no killing possible, to justify certain choices and actions. When one clings to notions and concepts alone, sticks to the letter of the teachings and ignores essential aspects like compassion, rules of conduct, ethics and morals, it can easily become a destructive kind of practice. Japanese monks not having been bound by the monastic rules of the Vinaya for centuries might also have something to do. "
Of course, I think it is a big subject, which I doubt you can really dive into with someone, in the context of your work.

Gassho
sat lah

[Jundo]

Japanese monks not having been bound by the monastic rules of the Vinaya for centuries might also have something to do. "

Oh, the Vinaya has not done much, and can be twisted too when society goes amuck.

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/monks-behaving-badly-explaining-buddhist-violence-in-asia/

Of the world's major faith traditions, Buddhism is most commonly and widely associated with peace, tolerance, and compassion. Yet Buddhism, like every other great religion, has a violent side. While scholars acknowledge violence within Buddhism, few have explored why Buddhism becomes violent in some places but not others. We develop a structural explanation for Buddhist violence. Our central claim is that Buddhist violence tends to occur in countries where Buddhism and the state are closely intertwined. We test this theory using both a statistical analysis of Buddhist violence in Buddhist-majority and Buddhist-plural countries and case studies of Buddhist violence (or lack thereof) in Myanmar, Singapore, Sri Lanka, and Thailand. Our findings show that religion-state integration emboldens Buddhist vigilantes to attack religious minorities.

This is an interesting paper on violence and warfare in the history of Tibetan Buddhism ...

https://journal.fi/scripta/article/view/67302

Gassho, J
stlah

[michaelw]

Very small bit of context from my very limited understanding.
The national religion of Japan at this time was Shinto and the emperor was regarded as divine.
Therefore if it was decreed that you go to war you go to war.
Sort of superior orders defense?
Buddhism had a history of suppression at various times in Japan so was not in any way exempt from taking part.

I stayed in a Cistercian monastery for some time in Wales and one of the monks there was an American who had flown B52s carpet bombing the coastal towns and cities of Japan during the war. He was haunted by the memory of the way fires started so easily and how quickly they spread.
Metta to all involved and caught in these situations.
I am currently reading about and struggling with how buddhism teaches us to rise above judgement and act only for the good of the Dharma.
A work in progress.

Gassho
MichaelW

satlah