Passion/Enthusiasm

[Mujin]

How does having passion, or enthusiasm, about something (a goal or type of work, for example) fit with our Zen way? Wouldn't it be counter to the purpose of our practice?

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

How does having passion, or enthusiasm, about something (a goal or type of work, for example) fit with our Zen way? Wouldn't it be counter to the purpose of our practice?

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

It depends. If it is clinging, attached, then perhaps. If it runs to excess, then yes.

If it is a passion or enthusiasm for some harmful pursuit, then yes.

However, if one feels passion and enthusiasm for a good pursuit, and knows how not to cling, not becoming trapped there and its prisoner, then it is fine.

So, for example, the Zen fellow might have a passion for an art, a sport or other project ... but knows how to put it down when needed and to turn to other things. I know many Zen folks that have a passion and enthusiasm. We might say that Master Dogen, for example, had a passion for his practice, for his writing.

We can have a goal and dream in heart, work heard for it, but ALSO be goalless too, in the same moment, and not be trapped by success or failure.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Mujin]

It depends. If it is clinging, attached, then perhaps. If it runs to excess, then yes.

If it is a passion or enthusiasm for some harmful pursuit, then yes.

However, if one feels passion and enthusiasm for a good pursuit, and knows how noy to cling, not becoming trapped there and its prisoner, then it is fine.

So, for example, the Zen fellow might have a passion for an art, a sport or other project ... but knows how to put it down when needed and to turn to other things. I know many Zen folks that have a passion and enthusiasm. We might say that Master Dogen, for example, had a passion for his practice, for his writing.

We can have a goal and dream in heart, work heard for it, but ALSO be goalless too, in the same moment, and not be trapped by success or failure.

Gassho, J
stlah

This being the true middle way then? That makes sense. So, do something wholeheartedly while doing it, letting results come on their own by virtue of actions, then realize it's all impermeant and put it down when it is time to do so. Am I understanding it correctly?

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

This being the true middle way then? That makes sense. So, do something wholeheartedly while doing it, letting results come on their own by virtue of actions, then realize it's all impermeant and put it down when it is time to do so. Am I understanding it correctly?

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

That's sounds good.

Of course, these things are simpler to say as an ideal than actually do sometimes. That's why it is called "practice."

Gassho, J
stlah

[FNJ]

Is a hyperfocus a passion? Some people hyperfocus to a point where it causes them problems with the society around them (not good). But then go on to do amazing things as a result of that hyperfocus (good). I think the problem here is not passion but rather knowing whether something is "good" or "not good" (for the individual or the society).

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

So I guess there is no way to know conclusively ahead of time whether a path will ultimately bear good fruit or not. Sometimes you have to just take a chance and face the consequences?

Sat LAH
gassho
Niall

[Hoseki]

Is a hyperfocus a passion? Some people hyperfocus to a point where it causes them problems with the society around them (not good). But then go on to do amazing things as a result of that hyperfocus (good). I think the problem here is not passion but rather knowing whether something is "good" or "not good" (for the individual or the society).

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

So I guess there is no way to know conclusively ahead of time whether a path will ultimately bear good fruit or not. Sometimes you have to just take a chance and face the consequences?

Sat LAH
gassho
Niall

Hi!

I wouldn't be to sure about good trees bearing good fruit. There really isn't an end to flow of things and sometimes something is evil does give rise to something good and vice versa. Any thing or dharma that arises are the conditions for the dharmas to come.

The Zhuangzi has a couple of interesting stories (these are ones I can remember) about good, evil and the perspectival nature of such things. One of the stories is about an old crooked tree (crooked staff.) It stands alone in a field of stumps. When the villagers need wood to build their homes this tree was too full of knots to be useful for lumber. So the villagers cut down all the other straight trees. It's uselessness while not evil was certainly not good for the villagers. But it's usefulness was good in the sense that it allowed the tree to continue living. Plus I'm sure it's nice to sit under in the shade.

Another section talks about a weasel or wild cat. I found the quote below.

Maybe you’ve never seen a wildcat or a weasel. It crouches down and hides, watching for something to come along. It leaps and races east and west, not hesitating to go high or low — until it falls into the trap and dies in the net. (Watson trans., Complete, p. 35).

The very skills that allow the wildcat or weasel to survive are used against it and case it's death.

Anywho, just some thoughts.


Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Houzan]

Is a hyperfocus a passion? Some people hyperfocus to a point where it causes them problems with the society around them (not good). But then go on to do amazing things as a result of that hyperfocus (good). I think the problem here is not passion but rather knowing whether something is "good" or "not good" (for the individual or the society).

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

So I guess there is no way to know conclusively ahead of time whether a path will ultimately bear good fruit or not. Sometimes you have to just take a chance and face the consequences?

Sat LAH
gassho
Niall

Hi Niall,
I think good decisions (tree) can have bad outcomes (fruit) and bad decisions can have good outcome. All we can do is to ensure we make as good decisions as possible. That translates into following our precepts to the best of our ability and then carry the karma we generate, good or bad, atone, and try again.

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

[Jundo]

Hi Niall,
I think good decisions (tree) can have bad outcomes (fruit) and bad decisions can have good outcome. All we can do is to ensure we make as good decisions as possible. That translates into following our precepts to the best of our ability and then carry the karma we generate, good or bad, atone, and try again.

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

I believe that is one reason that, in Buddhism, intention counts for much. Of course, we should do our best to be diligent, not negligent, and try to do good. But if there are bad aspects despite our care, it is our intent that determines Karma.

Gassho, J
Stlah