Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Shigeru]

My deepest gratitude to Jundo for these talks. I keep returning to the symbolism of the hand of thought whenever I find myself caught up in grasping too much at the clouds of my mind, both on and off the cushion. Powerful meaning in simple packaging

Gassho
Will
SatLah

[nima]

Many thanks or the clear videos for beginners. In many Zen schools Koans are also used for students. Does this method use in Treeleaf too? may be for non-beginners?

Gassho,
Nima

Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

Many thanks or the clear videos for beginners. In many Zen schools Koans are also used for students. Does this method use in Treeleaf too? may be for non-beginners?

Gassho,
Nima

Sat/Lah

Hi Nima,

In Soto Zen, Koans are typically used more as teaching stories, not as some phrase to ponder during Zazen, and not as some curriculum to be moved through with mysterious answers expected like a test to be passed.

If you would like examples, please look at some past reflections on the Koans of the Book of Serenity. For example, here is one such Koan ...

Case 94: Tozan Unwell

Tozan was unwell. A monk asked,
"Your Reverence is unwell. Is there anyone who does not become ill?"
Tozan said,
"There is."
The monk said,
"Does the one who does not get ill take care of Your Reverence?"
Tozan said,
"The old monk is properly taking care of that one."
The monk said,
"How about when your Reverence takes care of that one?"
Tozan said,
"Then the old monk does not see that there is illness."

And here are some reflections: https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...NIMITY-Case-94

I am preparing now to soon begin a new, similar dance with the Koans of the Book of Serenity.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Houzan]

I am preparing now to soon begin a new, similar dance with the Koans of the Book of Serenity.

Looking forward!

Gassho, Hōzan
Satlah

[nima]

Hi Nima,

In Soto Zen, Koans are typically used more as teaching stories, not as some phrase to ponder during Zazen, and not as some curriculum to be moved through with mysterious answers expected like a test to be passed.

If you would like examples, please look at some past reflections on the Koans of the Book of Serenity. For example, here is one such Koan ...



And here are some reflections: https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...NIMITY-Case-94

I am preparing now to soon begin a new, similar dance with the Koans of the Book of Serenity.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

Many Thanks dear Jundo. Most of the Koans are two times harder for me (because of my almost poor English)

Gassho,
Nima

Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

Looking forward!

Gassho, Hōzan
Satlah

I meant that I am planning a dance with "Blue Cliff Record" this time, not Book of Serenity ...

Gassho, J

stlah

[Houzan]

I meant that I am planning a dance with "Blue Cliff Record" this time, not Book of Serenity ...

Gassho, J

stlah

Even more so then [emoji4]

Gassho, Hōzan
Satlah

[Snow]

I sat this morning after listening to the Mirror episode (10 I believe). The use of your daughter's blocks was especially endearing. I've been sitting Zazen as a daily thing for a few weeks now and it is feeling more natural each time. Thank you for the help.

[Bion]

I sat this morning after listening to the Mirror episode (10 I believe). The use of your daughter's blocks was especially endearing. I've been sitting Zazen as a daily thing for a few weeks now and it is feeling more natural each time. Thank you for the help.

Ah, fantastic!! I hope we coincide at one of the scheduled sits! Would be lovely to practice together

gassho
sat and lah

[Snow]

Ah, fantastic!! I hope we coincide at one of the scheduled sits! Would be lovely to practice together

gassho
sat and lah

I intend to. I'm on the road at the moment for work and my schedule is challenging, but like all things this shall pass soon and I intend to join some of the online sits.

[Bion]

I intend to. I'm on the road at the moment for work and my schedule is challenging, but like all things this shall pass soon and I intend to join some of the online sits.

Whenever it happens, it’ll be a joy to say hello to you!

gassho
sat and lah

[Snow]

I sat this morning after listening to episode 11 on breathing. I see the up and down of focusing on breath. On one hand, while doing so, I was not very aware of my other experiences and sensations, but I was extremely preoccupied with the next upcoming number.

“Here comes six, are you ready? Don’t lose track. Breath number 6, here we go. There it is. There is goes. Breath six. That means the next breath will be… oh yes, seven, prepare for breath seven, don’t forget this next breath is seven, here it comes…”

So on one hand, focusing on breath seems to make it very difficult for me to “open the hand of thought” because I am very intentionally holding that that particular thought so tightly. Of course, with the proverbial hand closed so tightly, that left very little room for other thoughts. Though of course some of the slippery buggers still got in.

Thank you for the tools.

-Erik

[Jundo]

I sat this morning after listening to episode 11 on breathing. I see the up and down of focusing on breath. On one hand, while doing so, I was not very aware of my other experiences and sensations, but I was extremely preoccupied with the next upcoming number.

“Here comes six, are you ready? Don’t lose track. Breath number 6, here we go. There it is. There is goes. Breath six. That means the next breath will be… oh yes, seven, prepare for breath seven, don’t forget this next breath is seven, here it comes…”

So on one hand, focusing on breath seems to make it very difficult for me to “open the hand of thought” because I am very intentionally holding that that particular thought so tightly. Of course, with the proverbial hand closed so tightly, that left very little room for other thoughts. Though of course some of the slippery buggers still got in.

Thank you for the tools.

-Erik

Hi Snow,

Oh, we don't count breaths in our tradition. We just lightly follow as the breath enters and exists, at the nose. We even forget "inside/outside" as we are doing so, just following the incoming and receding waves without thought of coming or going. Eventually, we can move to open awareness.

But no counting, precisely for the reasons you describe.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Devaprem]

Hello Jundo. Thank you for your words about Shikantaza Zazen is not being meditation (https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tea...not-meditation). I have been just sitting every day since recently joining the Sangha and the experience cuts through everything. It is hard sometimes and easy at others. I am aware of my mind wanting to distinguish between hard and easy and even that distinguishing I am sometimes able to let go of (but that's hard at times too...!). I have meditated in the past without any purpose or goal - if one arose then I was able to let go of that at times too. I see that meditation with a purpose is not Shikantaza Zazen but my experience of 'purposeless meditation' brought me here to this Sangha and, in just sitting, there is a feeling coming home. Thank you to this Sangha for being here

Gassho,
Devaprem

(Sat today)

[Jundo]

Hello Jundo. Thank you for your words about Shikantaza Zazen is not being meditation (https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tea...not-meditation). I have been just sitting every day since recently joining the Sangha and the experience cuts through everything. It is hard sometimes and easy at others. I am aware of my mind wanting to distinguish between hard and easy and even that distinguishing I am sometimes able to let go of (but that's hard at times too...!). I have meditated in the past without any purpose or goal - if one arose then I was able to let go of that at times too. I see that meditation with a purpose is not Shikantaza Zazen but my experience of 'purposeless meditation' brought me here to this Sangha and, in just sitting, there is a feeling coming home. Thank you to this Sangha for being here

Gassho,
Devaprem

(Sat today)

Lovely. Just keep sitting, Dev.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah