[HealthDharma] Turning Suffering Inside Out, chapter ten, part three

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  • Kokuu
    Treeleaf Priest
    • Nov 2012
    • 6837

    [HealthDharma] Turning Suffering Inside Out, chapter ten, part three

    This week’s reading is pages 182-93 (from BASIC AWARENESS to REGULARITY OF PRACTICE).

    In this section Darlene describes our shikantaza practice as developing “the ability to pay attention to everything at once”. During the period of our sit we just allow what is happening to happen, and observe it without needing to change any part of our experience. She presents a short threefold set of instructions for how to sit, beginning with posture, watching the breath, and then expanding the attention out to include everything. She notes that the most important aspect is the willingness to be open.

    Darlene points out, as have Kodo Sawaki and Dogen before her, that Shikantaza is not about self-improvement but being present with what is arising, whether that is joy, sadness, anger or anything else. The practice is not to fix things but to observe them.

    The second section is about our meditation posture and Darlene notes that although meditation postures focus, for good reason, on the stability of the lower body and straightness of the spine, many of her readers may need different postures. Here she guides us through the regular sitting postures - cross-legged sitting (including full and half-lotus), Burmese style and Seiza (kneeling) – before turning to alternative postures such as sitting in a chair, walking, pacing (fast walking), lying of the back and lying on the side.

    My friend Sarah Kokai who is a priest at Stonewater Zen Centre in Liverpool became ill with Long Covid early in the pandemic and she wrote a short article on how she had to adapt her ‘sitting’ practice: Zazen Without The Sitting


    Question prompts

    1. How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?

    2. How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?


    Wishing you all a healthful week.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
  • Alina
    Member
    • Jul 2023
    • 181

    #2
    1. How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?
    "Shikantaza is ... being present with what is arising"
    Over the years I've "developed my own version" of zazen, one that "works for me". First thing I do when I sit is a body scan, from the top of my head to my toes. I breathe and feel each part of my body, this helps me to be in touch with my body, to come back to the present moment. Then I focus on my breathing, and do some rounds of breathing exercises, and only after that I can be present with what is arising. Sometimes my mind goes back to anxiety mode so fast that instead of "being present with what is arising" I simply count my breaths, until the second bell rings. Trying to just "be present with what is arising" was an exercise in anxiety that left me exhausted many times, it just doesn't work for someone with my history.

    I know that "zazen is good for nothing", a "goal less practice", etc, but there is a reason why all traditions focus on stabilizing the mind first, all other practices later. I do have peaceful days where "being present with what is arising" is what happens during most of the time while I am on my zafu, maybe with more years of practice that will eventually become something I can do all the time I spend on the zafu.

    2. How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?
    Burmese, it's comfortable for me. Full lotus is not a good option for me because my knees are not well aligned, so even though I can sit in full lotus, with the years it would most likely damage my knees, so I stopped sitting in full lotus over 12 years ago.


    Gassho
    Alina
    stlah

    Comment

    • Matt Johnson
      Member
      • Jun 2024
      • 225

      #3
      Originally posted by Alina
      1. How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?
      "Shikantaza is ... being present with what is arising"
      Over the years I've "developed my own version" of zazen, one that "works for me". First thing I do when I sit is a body scan, from the top of my head to my toes. I breathe and feel each part of my body, this helps me to be in touch with my body, to come back to the present moment. Then I focus on my breathing, and do some rounds of breathing exercises, and only after that I can be present with what is arising. Sometimes my mind goes back to anxiety mode so fast that instead of "being present with what is arising" I simply count my breaths, until the second bell rings. Trying to just "be present with what is arising" was an exercise in anxiety that left me exhausted many times, it just doesn't work for someone with my history.

      I know that "zazen is good for nothing", a "goal less practice", etc, but there is a reason why all traditions focus on stabilizing the mind first, all other practices later. I do have peaceful days where "being present with what is arising" is what happens during most of the time while I am on my zafu, maybe with more years of practice that will eventually become something I can do all the time I spend on the zafu.

      2. How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?
      Burmese, it's comfortable for me. Full lotus is not a good option for me because my knees are not well aligned, so even though I can sit in full lotus, with the years it would most likely damage my knees, so I stopped sitting in full lotus over 12 years ago.
      Thanks for this post Alina!

      This is going to sound weird... You reminded me how I love breathing so much! And why it's so important to be kind to our bodies.

      _/\_

      sat/ah
      ​​​​​
      Matt

      Comment

      • Tairin
        Member
        • Feb 2016
        • 2794

        #4
        Thank you Kokuu. I really liked this section of the book. Actually it was like having two books in one cover. The first half seemed to spend a lot of time on suffering. This second half almost completely dropped that theme and became very practical about this practice of ours.

        1. How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?

        As I have said before I don’t have the same pain and illness issues as some others here (just a reminder… my main reason for participating in these discussions at Treeleaf is because my wife suffers from chronic pain and fatigue). So my sense of pain is different. I know any aches I have are temporary. Having said that I have sat with both pain and illness. It gives me a sense of what it must be like to live with these things constantly and greatly increases my feeling of empathy towards both my wife and for all of you here who suffer.

        2. How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?

        Again not really applicable to me although recently I had some lower back pain (I overdid it one day) and just could not sit Burmese as I normally do so I lay down prone on the floor with my head on my zafu for that period of time. Again made me appreciate the perspective here at Treeleaf to sitting. Otherwise I might have decided that if I couldn’t sit “right” then I wouldn’t sit at all.


        Tairin
        Sat today and lah
        泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

        All of life is our temple

        Comment

        • Alina
          Member
          • Jul 2023
          • 181

          #5
          Originally posted by Matt Johnson
          You reminded me how I love breathing so much! And why it's so important to be kind to our bodies.
          Years ago I heard a talk by Thich Nhat Hahn, he was talking about mindfulness of the breath, and after a pause he said "In and out is so important". Mindfulness practice was a new thing to me back then, so I was struck by listening to a Zen master saying that just breathing mattered so much, insisting on paying attention to just the in breath and the out breath, so I started paying more attention to it...

          Like you said, it's so important to be kind to ourselves, bodies, breathing, all of it.


          Gassho
          Alina
          stlah

          Comment

          • Kaitan
            Member
            • Mar 2023
            • 528

            #6
            1. How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?

            I see it as a practice of inquiry, to get to know how we react to certain conditions, how they come and go. The most profound aspect may the the ability to accept suffering and after reading this book that can most teach in other words to accept the non-accepting state of mind. And that should be a great source of compassion.

            2. How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?

            I sit on a chair since the start of this year, I agree with Darlene that it is one the most difficult ones because of the stability with the spine. Though I feel lucky that I'm not particularly a small or tall person so I don't feel the need to use cushions to stabilize, with time I found stillness while using the chair. i do miss the stability of seiza, I hope to come back to it perhaps at the end of this year.

            Gassho

            stlah, Kaitan
            Last edited by Kaitan; 08-13-2024, 09:42 AM.
            Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher
            Formerly known as "Bernal"

            Comment

            • Devaprem
              Member
              • Jun 2024
              • 7

              #7
              Originally posted by Tairin
              Thank you Kokuu. I really liked this section of the book. Actually it was like having two books in one cover. The first half seemed to spend a lot of time on suffering. This second half almost completely dropped that theme and became very practical about this practice of ours.

              1. How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?

              As I have said before I don’t have the same pain and illness issues as some others here (just a reminder… my main reason for participating in these discussions at Treeleaf is because my wife suffers from chronic pain and fatigue). So my sense of pain is different. I know any aches I have are temporary. Having said that I have sat with both pain and illness. It gives me a sense of what it must be like to live with these things constantly and greatly increases my feeling of empathy towards both my wife and for all of you here who suffer.

              2. How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?

              Again not really applicable to me although recently I had some lower back pain (I overdid it one day) and just could not sit Burmese as I normally do so I lay down prone on the floor with my head on my zafu for that period of time. Again made me appreciate the perspective here at Treeleaf to sitting. Otherwise I might have decided that if I couldn’t sit “right” then I wouldn’t sit at all.


              Tairin
              Sat today and lah
              Hi Tairin. My wife also suffers from pain in the form of chronic migraine, as well other ailments. Your mention of empathy for people who suffer rings true deeply for me too. I feel my empathy and compassion arising from a place of love and can take many forms. I also am aware that adding lah as part of signing off is true for many times on every day of my life with my beloved because of her health

              In answer to the two original questions:

              How do you view Shikantaza in terms of working with pain and illness?
              In past times I have felt physical pain and it has been hard to be with though meditation. The body's 'fight or flight' mechanism is very strong. I have only been sitting Zazen as part of this Sangha since June. I have yet to see how this is for me in Zazen but reading of others' experience of doing so in this Sangha has been very helpful.

              How do you sit currently? Do you experience any issues with that which might be improved by using an alternative posture?
              After trying various ways of sitting, I have found seiza the most comfortable. It was how I sat in Aikido practice, so nice to come back to. I have a crescent moon shaped Zafu and a Zabuton (both in black, of course ) and I turn my Zafu on its edge for sitting seiza. I do add a few additional cushions under knees and ankles to support this 69 year old body.

              One thing I have noticed is elbow joint pain which I'm not sure has been caused or aggravated by my hands being in the cosmic mudra. It may be entirely unrelated. I will see as I am just sitting letting my hands fall to rest on my thighs for a few sessions. If others have experienced similar elbow joint pain thenI would very much like to hear from you..

              Gassho,
              Devaprem
              sat today / lah

              Comment

              • Tairin
                Member
                • Feb 2016
                • 2794

                #8
                Originally posted by Devaprem

                Hi Tairin. My wife also suffers from pain in the form of chronic migraine, as well other ailments. Your mention of empathy for people who suffer rings true deeply for me too. I feel my empathy and compassion arising from a place of love and can take many forms. I also am aware that adding lah as part of signing off is true for many times on every day of my life with my beloved because of her health
                Hi Devaprem

                No question part of my daily LAH is trying to do what I can around the house to make my wife’s day easier. Metta for you and your wife.


                Tairin
                Sat today and lah

                泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

                All of life is our temple

                Comment

                • Devaprem
                  Member
                  • Jun 2024
                  • 7

                  #9
                  Thank you, Tairin . Metta to you and your wife too.

                  Gassho,
                  Devaprem.

                  Sat to day / lah

                  Comment

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