6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

[Jundo]

Hi Book Clubbers,

It is time to begin our next enlightening selection ... actually two books that we will read together as one. The first is:

The Record of Transmitting the Light: Zen Master Keizan's Denkoroku, translated by Francis Cook

http://www.wisdompubs.org/pages/display ... n=&image=1

... and the second, highly recommended by Taigu, is a reflection on Cook's translation called:

Living Buddha Zen by Lex Hixon

http://larsonpublications.com/book-details.php?id=54

The 'Denkoroku' tells the tale of 52 “Transmissions of the Light” —from Shakyamuni Buddha continuously from master to successor, from India to China to Japan We will be reading slowly, one generation at a time, from each Friday. We might spend a week, maybe two, each time ... depending. Just to keep the discussion flowing, we hope each person participating in the book club will try to make at least one posting per each weekly reading..

We will begin with the Head Honcho, Shakyamuni, next week. For this week, I thought to ask everyone to read Les Hixon's very beautiful Introduction to his book, Living Buddha Zen, found on pages 19 to 31.

AS OPTIONAL ADDITIONAL READING, there is Prof. Cook's scholarly introduction to his book, found on pages 1 to 26 there.

I might put forward these questions:

- Is lineage in Buddhism, like a family's 'roots', important?

- Does it matter that, according to most historians, much of the earlier lineage is actually unknown or symbolic? The earliest sections of the lineage were created by later writers attempting to paint a direct connection to Shakyamuni Buddha. In fact, "Chan/Zen" as its own flavor and lineages of Buddhism probably first developed after Buddhism came to China. Still, can we say that the connection to the Buddha is still true despite that?

For me, the direct connection to the Buddha and his Teachings is found in each moment of Zazen. One's sitting Zazen right now can be seen as all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting right now.

Gassho, Jundo

[Dosho]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Your sitting Zazen right can be seen as all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting right now.

Right? I thought you couldn't do it wrong!

[Shohei]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

- Is lineage in Buddhism, like a family's 'roots', important?

Yes its important to look back over and see the family tree. See why we do what do, say what we say, etc. and bring it to life in our own ways today with out living in the pockets of our ancestors.

- Does it matter that, according to most historians, much of the earlier lineage is actually unknown or symbolic? The earliest sections of the lineage were created by later writers attempting to paint a direct connection to Shakyamuni Buddha. In fact, "Chan/Zen" as its own flavor and lineages of Buddhism probably first developed after Buddhism came to China. Still, can we say that the connection to the Buddha is still true despite that?

WE can say its true but really its up to the each person to discover the significance or meaning in due time.
So ... for some yes, Some no of course. There was and is the need for some to see a line drawn through time to help solidify the idea that we are all connected and we are all Buddha and Transmission from Shakyamuni to Billy Smith. I see it the teaching themselves are the real line that needs to be Seen, no big deal we need to use a visual aid

Looking forward to reading and discussion with you all!

Gassho
Shohei

[Jundo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Your sitting Zazen right can be seen as all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting right now.

Right? I thought you couldn't do it wrong!

You are write. You can not sit Zazen "wrong" ... even when you are doing it all wrong! :shock: There is no "bad" Zazen, even the really bad Zazen.

However, typing can certainly we done wrong. I have fixed the typo to read ...

One's sitting Zazen right now can be seen as all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting right now.

[chicanobudista]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Excellent! Starting right now! :mrgreen:

[Dosho]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Your sitting Zazen right can be seen as all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting right now.

Right? I thought you couldn't do it wrong!

You are write. You can not sit Zazen "wrong" ... even when you are doing it all wrong! :shock: There is no "bad" Zazen, even the really bad Zazen.

However, typing can certainly we done wrong. I have fixed the typo to read ...

One's sitting Zazen right now can be seen as all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting right now.

Thanks Jundo...was just checking, but I probably could have figured out what you meant if I had thought about it for more than a few seconds. ops:

All the more reason I'm looking forward to the readings and discussion.

[Taylor]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I second Shohei. Lineage, for me, acts as sort of a failsafe against "Zen Masters" who tout themselves as such because they felt unusually calm for a period of time. It allows for some conformation that the person has their head on straight. And sure, it also provides some inspiration to the practitioner who gets that fuzzy nostalgic feelings about being connected to the Buddha (I do sometimes ).

As far as its legitimacy is concerned, I'm skeptical but who really cares if #24 or #37 was made up (no offense to those numbers, of course)? If you sit Shikantaza, you may as well be at the top with your name written right beside Shakyamuni - same mind, different body. It serves its purpose for those who like lineages (and as I said, I am one) and for those who don't? Well, no one's forcing it

Gassho
Taylor

[Taigu]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hi everybody,

In his great novel Dune, Franck Herbert describes the initiation of a reverend mother Benne Gesserit when Jessica in her reality-vision penetrates a space where she is vividly in touch with every single Reverend Mother of the lineage...

Our lineage is as real as the sweat running down your spine as you sit, as unreal as the fiction in which we all live everyday. Real and virtual, the lineage has a very ambiguous quality to it, it displays aspects of the mind, archetypes, facets of the diamond, each transmission happening right now on your cushion and in the palm of your hand. The territory that it describes and maps transcends the historical record, the various characters and portraits should be seen both in succession and simultaneously. One should not claim the absolute historical accuracy of this storyline, at the same time, one cannot deny its profound relevance here and now.
We are the lineage itself and at the same time we are one of its moments. It is what we can call the esoteric understanding of this chart as opposed to the very primitive and exoteric perception that tends to prevail in so many religious minds.

My question would be: where are you in there? Or let me rephrase it, where and how does every ancestor can be found living in you?

let's have a peep together

gassho


Taigu

[Tb]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hi.

Note: lineage/teachers are not always the same, they just happen to coincide somewhat below...

- Is lineage in Buddhism, like a family's 'roots', important?

Yes, and no.
There is some people who always seem to say (or write) something in the style of HE (input name here) is my teacher or i'm the student of (input name here) and...
That is someone who can't let go of his lineage/teacher.
On the other hand we have the person who doesn't care for teachers/lineage or if he had one, and goes on to pose as an ”selftaught/selfawakened” person.
Both of these extremes are not seldom seen, and there is some people like that around.
Im my perspective lineage is important in that it shows that the person who has a lineage, has someone backing him up.
In some sense, that someone else than himself (but not other than himself), has seen that he has learned something and knows at least something about nothing...
But i would also like to mention two analogies about Lineage/teachers.
The first is like a bit of the raft that you let go of, when you don't need it.
You dont cling to it, and you stand on your own two feet (or bit of raft), and do things your way.
No other way.
The other analogy is that of the two persons walking on the beach.
One looks back and sees that sometimes there is only one set of tracks...

- Does it matter that, according to most historians, much of the earlier lineage is actually unknown or symbolic?
To some it does matter.
To me, not so much.
I don't see why it should, my practice are here and now.
And i don't think it matters that much who/what brought it here.
Just doing it.

The earliest sections of the lineage were created by later writers attempting to create a direct connection to Shakyamuni Buddha. In fact, "Chan/Zen" as its own flavor and lineages of Buddhism probably first developed after Buddhism came to China. Still, can we say that the connection to the Buddha is still true despite that?

Does it matter who brought the practice if it is here?
Do you carry the raft after you have crossed the river?
It's up to you to make it matter/not matter, and no matter what you think, it has still turned out awakened people and it's good practice.
Always good practice.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Rimon]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

- Is lineage in Buddhism, like a family's 'roots', important?

I think so. Being buddhism a mostly experiential and non theoretical espiritual discipline, to have spiritual masters that are to show students where to look and what to look for is very important. Because is so experiential there are plenty of "buddhist flavors", so when choosing a school, you are also choosing a lineage, a family, so to speak.

- Does it matter that, according to most historians, much of the earlier lineage is actually unknown or symbolic? The earliest sections of the lineage were created by later writers attempting to paint...

Myth is very important, I think. We like to be told stories, and we learn a lot about people, principles and ethics. They don't have to be true to work. As a matter of fact, when people take myths as if they were true accounts, sad things sometimes as we see in fundamentalist cults.
So, maybe Angulimala never existed, but through his character we got a magnificient story of redemption, and how it is never to late to change, no matter what you've been so far.
Equally, even if Hui-Neng never existed, consider him a patriarch says a lot about what is Zen, and he was one of the main reasons for me to grt interested in the Dharma.
And, besides, who does really exist? :-)

Gassho

Da5id

[Jundo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

And, besides, who does really exist? :-)

Gassho

Da5id

Yes, WHO does?

[anista]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I agree with what da5id said earlier. Lineages and myths are important in that we can place ourselves within a tradition of thought, we know the context of our practise, and we have a common ground to stand on. We have examples, we have stories and we have people who are all part of our particular way of life. In this way, a lineage can be skillfully used.

But also, a lineage can be used oppressively. I used to be involved in a samgha in the lineage of Philip Kapleau, and many people saw their "broken" lineage as a sign that they weren't a "real" tradition or school or even Zen at all. People used their own lineages to put down others. "Haha! MY lineage isn't broken, so WE must be the real deal. You, on the other hand, is FAKE!". Something like that. In this way, a lineage is not skillfully used.


Philip

[Hans]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hello everyone,

I only half remember a wonderful quote from Neil Gaiman in one of his earlier Sandman graphic novels....it went something like this: The right kind of half-truths have a much longer shelf-life then some of our so called truths.

Another one of his quotes relates to the nature of dreams. And in one way, our lineage is partially a dream also, a dream of freedom, liberation, a dream of becoming truly human. Look around you and see what the power of dreams and ideas has managed to create. Mind blowing stuff. :

"-People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes."

Being one with a particular lineage to me means to actively dream a dream together, joined in successes and failures, a band of Zen dreamers, dreaming the dream of waking up, casting off shackles to fully allowoneself to be that dream.

Gassho,

Hans

[Rimon]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

But also, a lineage can be used oppressively. I used to be involved in a samgha in the lineage of Philip Kapleau, and many people saw their "broken" lineage as a sign that they weren't a "real" tradition or school or even Zen at all. People used their own lineages to put down others. "Haha! MY lineage isn't broken, so WE must be the real deal. You, on the other hand, is FAKE!". Something like that. In this way, a lineage is not skillfully used.
Philip

Totally agreed. I've heard that sort of discourse too, and it's pretty sad; a sort of competition on who has the best ancestors. After all the greatest teacher, the Buddha himself didn't come from any lineage; he discovered all by himself.

And by the way. What is our own lineage? If it's not aristocratic enough i might consider leaving... ;-)

Only joking of course

Gassho

Da5id

[Jundo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

And by the way. What is our own lineage? If it's not aristocratic enough i might consider leaving... ;-)

Only joking of course

The Lineage is here.

http://www.treeleaf.org/articles/Treele ... neage.html

Of course, as with my own blood family ... most are, sadly, just names to me. I am sorry to say that I do not know much. I know a little about my Dharma Grandpa, Renpo Niwa, and a little about my blood Grandpas ... almost nothing before them. My Dharma Brother, Éric Rommeluère, who teaches in Paris, has been trying to research the whole line (with old temple records and ancient diaries and such) and is writing a small book on it ... but I have not seen the results of his research yet. So, I am sad to say, I do not know so much about our "Roots".

They were just men ... tall short fat skinny easy and difficult. But we can honor and remember our ancestors, even never having met them. We still meet them nonetheless.

As with our own blood families ... all the DNA we carry ... whoever they were. THANK YOU TO THEM! Whoever they were ... we are them and they just us. Thanks to them, here we are ... ALIVE!

Gassho, J