Stories of the Lotus Sutra - Chapter 4: Sun and Moon Light Buddha

[Bion]

sun and moon light buddha 5.jpg Hello, friends.

This week, as we continue our reading of Reeves’ *Stories of the Lotus Sutra*, we turn another page and begin Chapter 4.

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Reading Assignment: Chapter 4 - Sun and Moon Light Buddha

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I invite you once more to take your time with this short chapter. Sit with it for a couple of days, then come back here to share your reflections and see what others have to say.

Your contributions to the previous chapters have been fantastic, and I’d love to keep this momentum going. While we’re working with weekly assignments, there’s no pressure to post immediately—you’re welcome to take a break and catch up later if needed.

I’d also love your feedback on this format that combines written reflections with our twice-monthly Zoom meetings. Is it working well for you?

You can catch up on previous meetings anytime on our Study Page. If you haven't yet joined the Book Club, you're more than welcome to do so—we still have plenty of room. On the linked Study Page, you’ll find suggested reflection questions, along with some goodies from previous discussions. As always, I invite you to write down one thing you’ve learned and to ask one single question that comes up for you!

Our next Zoom meeting is on Saturday, February 28. All the details about how to join and the meeting time are available on the Study Page.

I can't wait to see what interesting things you have to say about this week's chapter and whether you find it less repetitve than the previous ones. Happy reading!


Gassho
sat lah

[Chikyou]

As I read both this commentary and the Lotus Sutra itself, a couple of things are standing out to me. The first is the great, VAST vastness of it all. Buddhas and Buddhas and more Buddhas, eons and eons and more eons. It’s as good an evocation of the whole of the Cosmos as I have ever heard or read. Like a fractal, or two mirrors held across from each other, the Dharma just keeps going and going and going into infinity. The concept is challenging for my mind to grasp, even when it’s laid out so clearly in front of me.

Another thing that’s standing out to me, and becoming more and more clear as I read further and further into the Lotus Sutra itself, is a salvation theme. Not salvation in quite the same way that I’m used to, having grown up around Christianity, but a broader, more cosmic salvation from suffering that permeates everyone and everything. I am finding myself consistently surprised and delighted by it.

To answer your questions, Bion, I’m loving the two-chapters-and-a-meeting format. It’s keeping me engaged in a personal way (the meetings work for my schedule and I love an opportunity to interact “face to face”) and I always find that so much comes out in the meeting discussions in a way that doesn’t come up in forum discussions.

And yes, this chapter is definitely less repetitive! This is more or less what I expected the first two or three chapters to be like, too. I’m glad we’ve finally moved off of the introduction.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Bion]

To answer your questions, Bion, I’m loving the two-chapters-and-a-meeting format. It’s keeping me engaged in a personal way (the meetings work for my schedule and I love an opportunity to interact “face to face”) and I always find that so much comes out in the meeting discussions in a way that doesn’t come up in forum discussions.

And yes, this chapter is definitely less repetitive! This is more or less what I expected the first two or three chapters to be like, too. I’m glad we’ve finally moved off of the introduction.

Most excellent!!! I have a feeling the majority will feel like we've somehow taken a step forward, not just circling around the same theme!

Gassho
sat lah

[Hosui]

I can’t help but ask, What is Buddhahood as revealed by the Lotus Sutra? This has been my abiding question thus far in this wonderful Beyond Words and Letters Book Club [I'm not always able to attend the f-2-f meetings Bion but I'm liking the rhythm]. It’s not surprising then I’m finding the Sutra to be like a hall of gilded mirrors in which its own self-reflection is infinitely burnished, not when I understand Buddhahood itself to be a reflection of the whole zoo of sentience we’re encountering in this infinite hall of reflections of the here-and-now. I love Chikyou mention of the VASTNESS of it all, and I also don’t believe this to be a gratuitous literary flourish. From my seat in the assembly, Buddhahood seems to be a realm that beholds all other realms, an encounter that’s no less than the vast theatre of operations we bodhisattvas have deployed to for the eternal present, whether we like/realise it or not.

What I’ve learned: I’ve always known I hated the idea of God — of monotheism generally, of a purposive deity, of someone or thing that’s planned the universe and my existence in it — but what I’ve not always known is why I’ve hated it so much! Now I’m beginning to understand the emptiness of it all. I’ve hated monotheism so much because — put negatively, and as the Sutra is revealing to me my hitherto unappreciated past and current bodhisattva endeavours — each of my wants I never actually get; I can’t do what I think I’m doing; I don’t know what’s going on, no one does; and no one or nothing is in control. Couched in opposing positive terms, each thing and person I encounter is eternal and infinite in form, is an expression of the infinite, is indeterminate in awareness, because no end is reached, and is wonderful to boot. Between these two extremes, both viewpoints seem equally valid and equally invalid.

A question I’d ask: If this hate I’m talking about is just as sharply distinguished and made vivid by its negation as by its opposed positive, then surely Buddhahood is present in all three standpoints?

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah

[MikeH]

The structure of this reading group has worked great for me--thanks, Bion and everyone else. I like its rhythm, and I'm learning a lot. The structure of Reeves' book, on the other hand, has been frustrating for me, so I decided to skim through the entire thing to try to figure it out. I'm glad I did. I share below what I learned in case it might be helpful to others, especially those trying to "follow along" in the Lotus Sutra itself which is not matched in any obvious way chapter-for-chapter with Reeves' commentary.

What I learned: This is how Reeves' chapters map onto the Lotus Sutra's chapters:

Reeves	Lotus Sutra	Reeves	Lotus Sutra
Ch. 1	Overview	Ch. 15	Ch. 12
Ch. 2	Overview	Ch. 16	Ch. 12
Ch. 3	Ch. 1	Ch. 17	Ch. 13
Ch. 4	Ch. 1	Ch. 18	Ch. 14
Ch. 5	Ch. 2, 3	Ch. 19	Ch. 15
Ch. 6	Ch. 3	Ch. 20	Ch. 16
Ch. 7	Ch. 4	Ch. 21	Ch. 20
Ch. 8	Ch. 5	Ch. 22	Ch. 21
Ch. 9	Ch. 6	Ch. 23	Ch. 22
Ch. 10	Ch. 7	Ch. 24	Ch. 23
Ch. 11	Ch. 8	Ch. 25	Ch. 24
Ch. 12	Ch. 9	Ch. 26	Ch. 25
Ch. 13	Ch. 10	Ch. 27	Ch. 27
Ch. 14	Ch. 11	Ch. 28	Ch. 28

Reeves does not discuss the opening or closing Sutras, nor does he discuss chapters 17-19 and chapter 26. He explains that this is because his focus is on stories. I also noticed that he considers chapters 12 and 23-28 to be a sort of "Appendix" to the main story of the Lotus Sutra which he says runs from Lotus Sutra ch. 1-22.

I feel more able now to settle into Reeves' book and find a new rhythm for reading the Lotus Sutra along with it. Once I've re-read chapter 4 of Reeves, I'll come back with a question about it. In the meantime, I'm enjoying everyone's perspectives and hope some might find the table above helpful moving forward.

gassho,
satlah,
Mike

[Bion]

I feel more able now to settle into Reeves' book and find a new rhythm for reading the Lotus Sutra along with it. Once I've re-read chapter 4 of Reeves, I'll come back with a question about it. In the meantime, I'm enjoying everyone's perspectives and hope some might find the table above helpful moving forward.

Mike, that's a great resource. We should add it to the Study Page!

gassho
sat lah

[Bob-Midwest]

I am enjoying the reading so far, but find it a bit slow. Four chapters in and lots of hype, but still not to one these enchanting stories. Hope the hype was worth it. Peaking ahead at Chapter 5.

Bob
sat/lah

[Ryūdō-Liúdào]

While I feel like we’re finally getting more into story mode, I too found myself wondering, “where are these epic tales you’ve promised us, Mr. Reeves?” Still, perhaps this is its own lesson in being with what is rather than what was expected.

That being said, here's what this chapter brought to mind for me:

On the concept of “good” and what it means to “do good,” I’ve come to see it less as pure selflessness and more as a spectrum of ethical action. When actions arise from honesty, integrity, fairness, compassion, respect, responsibility, and accountability, they naturally express what we call “good.” Even so, this isn’t simply selfish or selfless. When one sees that such conduct also supports a more stable and harmonious world, compassionate action begins to reinforce itself. Helping others and helping oneself no longer feel entirely separate.

I resonate with Reeves’ suggestion that seeing countless Buddhas is to recognize Buddha expressed in all beings. This recognition becomes clearer through compassionate action, which in turn deepens that very recognition. In that way, caring for others is not just a moral ideal but a lived insight: the boundary between “you” and “me” is thinner than it first appears, and both kindness and cruelty echo back across that thin line.

Gasshō,
流道-Ryūdō-Liúdào
Satlah

[Tenryu]

Reeves seems to read this part of the sutra as placing the present within a longer stream. The Buddha’s light has appeared before. It appears again. What is happening now is described as both unprecedented and already familiar. The present grows out of the past without simply repeating it.

With Fame Seeker, what stands out is how ordinary he is. Forgetful. Drawn to recognition. Not especially steady. And still the path continues. His story is not framed as failure or triumph. It unfolds within the same field as the others. Doing good, in this light, is not presented as purity or self-denial. It depends on circumstances, on what is needed, on what can actually be done.

When Reeves links doing good with seeing countless buddhas, the point does not seem abstract. If the Buddha is to be found in every living being, then this way of seeing directly shapes how one acts. Doing good and seeing clearly are not separate movements.

“The true nature of all things.” No need to fix its meaning. Things leaning on one another. Nothing standing alone.

One thing I take from this reading:
Perhaps “good” only makes sense within the whole situation.

One question I am left with:
So what does this moment call for?

I’d also love your feedback on this format that combines written reflections with our twice-monthly Zoom meetings. Is it working well for you?

The format works well for me. I like the mix of writing and meeting. It doesn’t feel overwhelming, and there’s enough time between sessions for things to sink in a bit.

If anything, I sometimes wish I were a little more talkative in the live discussions. I tend to handle raw thoughts like a hot potato, passing them from one hand to the other until they cool down enough to be served properly. Perhaps that will change with time.

Either way, I’m really glad to be part of this and to hear what the text brings up for everyone else.

Gasshō,
Tenryū
sat&lah

[Onsho]

Master Ma was unwell. The monastery superintendent asked,

“Master, how has your health been in recent days?”

The Great Teacher said, “Sun-face buddha, Moon-face buddha.”



I'm seeing why Manjushri is notorious for wisdom as well.

Gassho,
Onsho
satlah

[Taiji]

Life continues to be somewhat chaotic for me, and I'm both behind on the readings and not going to be able to make Saturday's face-to-face (I will be traveling to a prior commitment), but in general, the rhythm is a good one. My individual circumstances are simply making it a bit complicated to keep up in the moment. I have, however, been enjoying reading everyone's ongoing thoughts!

Gassho,
Taiji
Sat/LAH Today

[Shujin]

It may be a bit cynical, but I had a bit of a laugh at all eight sons leaving their worldly careers and becoming dharma teachers. As a parent, it's rare to have even a single child follow in their parents' footsteps. Perhaps hyperbole is the point, however. He also makes a statement that doing what is good, or helpful often requires a level of skill or intelligence. Having compared the behavior of adults and children, I don't think intelligence or skill is necessary.

" Bai Juyi asked another question: “What is the great insight of Buddhism?”
The master [Niaoke Daolin] replied: “Don't do anything bad, and do everything that's good.”
Bai Juyi replied: “A three - year - old child understands that kind of talk.”
The master said: “A three year old child may be able to say it, but an eighty year old can't put it into practice.” Bai Juyi bowed, and left."

Gassho,
Shujin
st/lah

[Shinkon]

MikeH, thank you for that chapter and schedule breakdown. That is very helpful!
Onsho, I thought of Sun-faced buddha, Moon-faced buddha as soon as I read that as well.

Doing good things and seeing countless buddhas: I like the breakdown of these two concepts that frequently occur throughout our study here and elsewhere.
As with other commentaries, Reeves rightly observes "that a kind of equivalence announcing the teaching of the Dharma Flower Sutra and revealing the principle of the true nature of things suggest this latter interpretation. That is: the Dharma Flower Sutra itself reveals the true nature of things (p46). "

I'm of the opinion that chapters 2, 3, and 4 could have been combined.

Let's see where he takes us.

Really, I am in a good mood. My academic mode doesn't seem to shut off. Another point in practice!
Look forward to Saturday!

Gassho,
Shinkon

[Bion]

Hello, friends. I wanted to remind yuou all that our Book Club meeting is tomorrow, Saturday! Hope many of you can make it. Bring your reflections, complaints, questions, start some trouble..

Gassho
sat lah

[Chiko]

Master Ma was unwell. The monastery superintendent asked,
“Master, how has your health been in recent days?”
The Great Teacher said, “Sun-face buddha, Moon-face buddha.”

I thought of this koan as well, and it's fascinating to think that the Lotus Sutra, Avatamsaka Sutra (where I believe the phrase originally appears), and Great Master Ma are sharing this expression to refer to the infinite manifestations of Buddhahood. Maybe we're still in the foyer of the sutra, and Manjushri is welcoming all visitors with a cup of tea. Perhaps by portraying the Buddha in such cosmic splendor, the sutra is conveying the universality of Buddha nature, which is very welcoming indeed.

Gassho, Chiko
st/lah