Blue Cliff Record (Case 1) The Highest Meaning of the Holy Truths

[Onkai]

I - What would you answer if the emperor asked you, "What's your telephone number?" "How much money do you have in the bank?"

My phone number is a string of somewhat random numbers. I don't have money in the bank. There are bits and bytes of on/off sequences associated with my name in the bank which change the limits of what I can take out

II - Also, was Bodhidharma killed or not killed? Did he return to India? Could he ever leave India?

Bodhidharma is the Mahasattva Avalokitesvara, alive everywhere, hearing suffering and transmitting the Buddha Mind Seal.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat lah

[ZenJay]

FOLLOW-UP ASSIGNMENT

I am going to suggest, only for folks who did not do so, that you maybe try again to provide responses from that same "absolute/relative" double-entendre I describe in the OP. For example, how would Bodhidharma change a tire: Answer: "There is nothing to change, thus all things are change."

Maybe give it another shot if your first response did not approach the questions that way.

Yet how can one answer such questions when, of course, there is nothing to ask, nothing to answer, to body to ask it?

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

Ahhhhh well… I’ll try again

1- “My number is your number, no number, all numbers, the numbers beyond numbers dialed on the phone beyond phones.” (Please hold, your salvation is important to us… one of our bodhisattvas with be with you in just a moment…)

“My bank account is empty, which makes me the richest man in the world.”

2- “Having never been born, I was never killed. My body still sits in the grave. ”
” India beneath every step, I neither leave or return”

Something like this? I think?

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/Lah today

[Jundo]

It is a fun game, yes?

Okay, we will move on to Case Two ...

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Houzan]

It is a fun game, yes?

Okay, we will move on to Case Two ...

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

Yes, this was fun!
Looking forward to the next case.

Gassho, Hōzan
satlah

[Chikyou]

Wow, this one really has me thinking! My first thought, when asked "would I give the Emperor my phone number" was to say "well it depends on whether or not I like him". But then I read the koan and thought, "but what if the emperor is Bodhidharma?" Anyone and everyone we meet could be Bodhidharma (or ARE, since we all have Buddha nature!) So we should treat everyone we meet as if they are Buddha himself standing in front of us.

As for did Bodhidharma die, well, physically, maybe. But as all things are Buddha and timeless...no, definitely not.

Gassho,
SatLah
Chikyō

[Hoseki]

Hi Everyone,


Sorry if this full of zennie talk I had some difficulty expressing this.

I - What would you answer if the emperor asked you, "What's your telephone number?" "How much money do you have in the bank?"


I would probably just tell the Emperor what he asked. I don’t think I would survive an angry emperor. But then I think I would ask him to sit with me. Telling him that when we sit the dust of the world can settle. When the dust kicks back up as it always does simply let it settle again. And maybe suggest that he think about it now and again but not while he’s sitting. Do so until it makes sense (10 years )

These are just Zazen instructions so he can begin to get a feel for the open space that surrounds and penetrates everything.

After a time, I would ask him to tell me who he is when the dust has settled. If he tried to talk to me using his station or his likes or dislikes he would still be thinking of himself in terms of his conventional life. He would be kicking up dust. But if he smiled or threw a shoe at me I would think hes starting to understand that he is neither of these things but also all of these things. Maybe ask him if Emperior Wu suddenly went to one of the Heavens where would his retainers leave his meals? The I would ask him again where is Emperior Wu when the dust has settle? My thinking is Emperor Wu, his station, wealth and power are like cloth he puts on when hes out and about in the world but when sitting Zazen hes naked!

II - Also, was Bodhidharma killed or not killed? Did he return to India? Could he ever leave India?

Bodhidharma was killed by bodhidharma. Bodhidharma left india before he was born.

Bodhidharma was both separate from his killers but they are not one and not two. It’s sort of like looking at a painting of two sides of a war. When we look at the painting see solders fighting. But when we look at the paint we just see different shades of paint. I’m trying to say they are the same but not the same. If they are the same then Bodhidharma killed Bodhidharma but if they are different then he was killed by someone else. But neither is correct without the other and yet they appear contradictory. It’s like looking a coin and asking if it’s has a head or tail on the coin. That’s a question without an answer. By the same token Bodhidharma did leave for China. But because Bodhidharma is not one and not two along with everything in the ten directions he never left and was always there.


Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Ankai]

I'D reply, "Who are you expecting to answer the phone, and who would they be talking to?"
"Whose picture is on the money?"
II - Also, was Bodhidharma killed or not killed? Did he return to India? Could he ever leave India?
I don't see any evidence to support Bodhidharma being killed or not killed. Was he even there?

[BikeZen]

I'm coming late to the party, but here goes (in the style of a discovery response):

Q1 - What would you answer if the emperor asked you, "What's your telephone number?" "How much money do you have in the bank?"
A1 - I would tell him my phone number and "I don't know" (since my wife handles the money and I really have no idea). Those questions are factual and can be answered, like what I think the pointer means, in describing what you see or "judging precisely at a glance". This is in contrast to the other question to BD of "who is facing me?". That's an existential question, asking "who" which needs a definition itself and then needing a definition of "facing" and then, like "who", who is "me"? [Objection - ask the witness to answer the question! Sustained] "I don't know" who is who, where any who is facing or who the me is. It's everything everywhere all at once (which was a great movies and one i have more appreciation for since studying zen buddhism).

Q2 - Also, was Bodhidharma killed or not killed? Did he return to India? Could he ever leave India?
A2 - This gets back to who is who. But if Avalokitesvara is legion, and innumerable, then everything/everyone is Avalokitesavara and also Bodhidharma. His physical form ceased function and was buried but "he" or the meaning of him survived so to speak.

Gassho,
Bill
Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

I'm coming late to the party, but here goes (in the style of a discovery response):

Q1 - What would you answer if the emperor asked you, "What's your telephone number?" "How much money do you have in the bank?"
A1 - I would tell him my phone number and "I don't know" (since my wife handles the money and I really have no idea). Those questions are factual and can be answered, like what I think the pointer means, in describing what you see or "judging precisely at a glance". This is in contrast to the other question to BD of "who is facing me?". That's an existential question, asking "who" which needs a definition itself and then needing a definition of "facing" and then, like "who", who is "me"? [Objection - ask the witness to answer the question! Sustained] "I don't know" who is who, where any who is facing or who the me is. It's everything everywhere all at once (which was a great movies and one i have more appreciation for since studying zen buddhism).

Q2 - Also, was Bodhidharma killed or not killed? Did he return to India? Could he ever leave India?
A2 - This gets back to who is who. But if Avalokitesvara is legion, and innumerable, then everything/everyone is Avalokitesavara and also Bodhidharma. His physical form ceased function and was buried but "he" or the meaning of him survived so to speak.

Gassho,
Bill
Sat/Lah

Hi Bill,

Both (especially A1) very reasoned, intellectual, logic answers that are not wrong, trying to define terms and contemplate their inter-relationship. Bodhidharma knew exactly WHO he was (and we all are) when he said "don't know." You did better for a moment on the last sentence (after the very funny "witness, answer the question." ) Bodhidharma knew "who is who," which in this case has both the usual meaning of a list of "Who's Who" (like those books, "The Lawyer's Who's Who," and a "Who's who of celebrities came to the gala") but also means something like "Who is precisely who, that's who!"

And this is from just a few years ago, not quite PC ...
.

.
By the way, I changed our music video to The Who! (Should have had them from the start!)
.

.
Gassho, J
stlah

[Brett]

1. (123) 456-7890 and every penny.
2. Sure, why complicate the issue.

St/lah
Gassho
Brett

[BikeZen]

Hi Bill,

Both (especially A1) very reasoned, intellectual, logic answers that are not wrong, trying to define terms and contemplate their inter-relationship.
.
Gassho, J
stlah

My undergraduate philosophy degree and law school/legal career are showing. But i don't think either may be very useful during these studies.

Gassho,
Bill

Sat