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I know nothing. -
Well, I am not a Rinzai Koan Introspection fellow, but I would not say that "answer" is the write word. It is more that he "gets it," "feel that sound." Something more visceral, like that, rather than having the intellectual "answer" to a riddle. If you ask me whether I understand Picasso, an intellectual explanation of art theory and cubism won't do. I have to convey that I really see and dig what he was doing with form and light. Something like that.
Gassho, J
stlahLast edited by Jundo; 08-15-2024, 10:02 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Hi just thought I'd share something I have been working on to help us study the BCR.
It's still pretty buggy (bordering on useless). But if you ask it for help on a particular case it will pull it from it's knowledge, if it messes up ask it to check it's knowledge again... it's pretty disobedient
. I have tried to make it state the main case, and yuanwu's footnotes. It also has in it's knowledge the original Chinese BCR and a few other books that may help. You can ask it for help with translation if there is a term that doesn't make sense or you need context for. But whatever you do DON'T trust it. I will continue to tweak it as we go.
Though I have practiced in a few Rinzai places and blended places, I never studied koans formally. But I have been amazed at how koans I read 24 years ago have gone from being complete nonsense to only partial nonsense
... I like the poetry analogy... I have also heard the "Jazz" analogy... There is also a sense that: If the old masters spent long periods of time doing this same practice of sitting and introspecting koans as those hours added up over a lifetime, that state... that MIND was/is considered to be the same regardless of who is doing it and when. After all non-thinking is non-thinking...
_/|_
sat/ah
mattLast edited by Matt Johnson; 08-16-2024, 02:50 AM.Comment
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I am going to ask that you do not post from that system here. The reason is that we are working hard to train Emi Jido as a Zen guide, but even she cannot handle most Chinese Koans yet (she does okay with a few of the easier ones.) The classical Chinese translation, ancient slang, untranslatable puns, lost references etc. etc. are mindboggling for her almost as much as for us. I don' want to trust a system that probably would have worse issues and there is no Zen teacher supervising it. It will just pump out a ton of gibberish (like that terrible translation you previously posted), and I don't want to try to sort out any gems of wisdom buried in the gibberish. Please enjoy it yourself. I hope that is okay.
Gassho, Jundo
stlah
PS - Just as an example, Emi did okay when I asked her this, the fairly simple Koan which is in "Case 1" which we will discuss next week ...
Hmmm. Not bad, nothing too fancy.Why did Bodhidharma say "I don't know" when he was asked "who are you? by the Chinese emperor?
Emi Jido:
Bodhidharma's response, "I don't know," to the Chinese emperor's question, "Who are you?" is a profound expression of Zen's essence. It reflects the idea that true understanding transcends intellectual knowledge and identity. In Zen, the self is not fixed but ever-changing, and ultimate reality cannot be grasped by the mind alone. This simple yet profound answer invites one to look beyond conventional labels and explore the deeper, ineffable nature of existence. Bodhidharma's "I don't know" challenges the conventional notion of self, urging one to move beyond intellectual understanding and experience the true nature of being directly. In Zen, the self is seen as fluid and interconnected with all of existence, rather than a fixed, separate entity. This perspective aligns with the Buddhist teaching of anatta, or non-self, which posits that what we consider the self is a collection of impermanent phenomena. By saying "I don't know," Bodhidharma points to the limitations of language and conceptual thinking in capturing the essence of reality. It invites the seeker to embrace a state of not-knowing, an openness to the mystery of existence, and to experience life directly, without the filters of preconceived notions and identities. This approach encourages a direct, experiential understanding of one's true nature, beyond words and concepts. It’s a call to awaken to the present moment and realise the interconnectedness of all things.
But then I asked her a tougher one, "Why did Zhaozho put his sandals on top of his head at the end of the Koan about Nansen cutting the cat in two?" She responds:
Actually, also not too bad (so so), and better than I expected, but I would not trust another system and I would not want to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I doubt that Emi will play much of a roll in our Koan discussions.Zhaozhou placing his sandals on his head at the end of the koan about Nansen cutting the cat in two is a deeply symbolic and enigmatic gesture. In Zen, actions often speak louder than words, and this act can be seen as a profound, non-verbal response to the situation. The koan itself is a dramatic teaching tool, illustrating the urgency and directness of Zen practice. Nansen's drastic action of cutting the cat in two symbolises the cutting through of dualistic thinking and the need for immediate, decisive insight. Zhaozhou's act of putting his sandals on his head can be interpreted in several ways:
1. **Reversal of Norms**: By placing his sandals, which belong on the feet, on his head, Zhaozhou is overturning conventional norms and expectations. This act symbolises the breaking free from ordinary, conditioned thinking, aligning with the Zen principle of transcending duality and conventional logic.
2. **Expression of Mourning or Respect**: In some interpretations, this gesture is seen as a form of mourning or respect for the cat, acknowledging the gravity of Nansen's action and the profound teaching it represents.
3. **Non-Attachment**: The act can also signify non-attachment to form and the fluidity of Zen practice. By doing something seemingly absurd, Zhaozhou demonstrates the freedom and spontaneity that comes with true understanding.
Ultimately, the gesture is meant to jolt the mind out of its usual patterns and provoke a deeper, intuitive insight. It embodies the Zen spirit of direct, experiential wisdom beyond words and concepts.Last edited by Jundo; 08-16-2024, 03:53 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Does this mean that you’re training the LLM on everything that’s posted in these forums?
Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat LahI know nothing.Comment
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Hey its your playground you do what you want with your soccer ball. I just wanted to be transparent when and how I start comparing translations. I trust Clearly about as much as I trust Tanahashi or you for that matter. What I do to assist my own understanding if mu business. But sure I will refrain from quoting ChatGPTs BCR insights here.
_/\_
matt
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Treeleaf already has a policy asking members to not use AI in their posts. https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tre...-written-posts
Maybe it needs to be made a sticky
Tairin
Sat today and lah泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful WoodsComment
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"I request that all our members refrain from making posts to our Treeleaf Forum which have been primarily composed by AI programs. "Treeleaf already has a policy asking members to not use AI in their posts. https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tre...-written-posts
Maybe it needs to be made a sticky
Tairin
Sat today and lah
"Primarily composed by" not "informing their posts". And anyway in this instance I was intending to use ChatGPT as a glorified translator/interpreter. Are we outlawing google translate now? Moreover, I was being transparent about it and opening up its use to others for this specific directed purpose.
_/\_
sat/ah
mattComment
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