ANNOUNCEMENT: Reflections on the Blue Cliff Record ... Coming Soon ...

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40096

    ANNOUNCEMENT: Reflections on the Blue Cliff Record ... Coming Soon ...

    Dear All,

    We will soon begin reflections here on the Koans of the Blue Cliff Record, cherished in the Soto tradition and in much of Zen ...

    ... or, I should say, we will begin reflections on the heart of the Blue Cliff, the core Koans and Master Yuanwu's original commentary ... because centuries of scribblings in the margins of the Blue Cliff, comments and comments by folks wishing to show off their wisdom, writing skills and wit, have left the core teachings obscured and the whole book rightly criticized (for centuries) as quite a mess! Nor are the Koans just monkey wrenches to the brain, not meant to be understood. There are basic Mahayana Buddhist teachings there which the authors sought to convey. More about that later!

    We will be using the Cleary & Cleary version (the translation by both Cleary brothers, not to be confused with the version by one Cleary alone), which I encourage folks to acquire through a legal source.



    While you are waiting for the book, or if purchase in your location is truly a logistic, financial or other hardship, there is a PDF version available ...



    We will start soon.

    Gassho, Jundo
    stlah
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-27-2024, 11:32 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Onkai
    Treeleaf Unsui
    • Aug 2015
    • 2998

    #2
    Thank you, Jundo! I look forward to these readings and discussions.

    Gassho, Onkai
    Last edited by Onkai; 07-27-2024, 02:36 PM. Reason: Made plural
    美道 Bidou Beautiful Way
    恩海 Onkai Merciful/Kind Ocean

    I have a lot to learn; take anything I say that sounds like teaching with a grain of salt.

    Comment

    • Tairin
      Member
      • Feb 2016
      • 2799

      #3
      Awesome. I am in. I’ll order the book today.


      Tairin
      Sat today and lah
      泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

      All of life is our temple

      Comment

      • Kokuu
        Treeleaf Priest
        • Nov 2012
        • 6837

        #4
        That is good to hear! I just received this one (although I have the translation above also) which includes comments by Hakuin and Tenkei:



        Gassho
        Kokuu
        -sattoday/lah-

        Comment

        • Houzan
          Member
          • Dec 2022
          • 498

          #5
          Looking forward!

          Gassho, Hōzan
          Satlah

          Comment

          • Anthony
            Member
            • Aug 2023
            • 83

            #6
            Looking forward to participating!

            Just purchased my copy!

            gassho,
            satlah
            Anthony

            Comment

            • Showan
              Member
              • Jun 2021
              • 50

              #7
              This sounds like a lot of fun, I'm looking forward to it!

              Showan
              Sat today, lent a hand
              おつかれさまです

              Comment

              • ZenJay
                Member
                • Apr 2024
                • 120

                #8
                Definitely in for this! I will order the book!

                Gassho,
                Jay

                Sat/Lah today

                Comment

                • Tairin
                  Member
                  • Feb 2016
                  • 2799

                  #9
                  For my fellow Canadians looking to order the book …. Compare the price at Indigo vs Amazon.ca. Normally the prices are pretty comparable but for whatever reason the price at Amazon is almost $20 less currently


                  Tairin
                  Sat today and lah
                  泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

                  All of life is our temple

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 40096

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tairin
                    For my fellow Canadians looking to order the book …. Compare the price at Indigo vs Amazon.ca. Normally the prices are pretty comparable but for whatever reason the price at Amazon is almost $20 less currently


                    Tairin
                    Sat today and lah
                    And used copies are very nice too, especially if the cost is hard for somebody. The book has been around for years, so many used copies.

                    Gassho, Jundo
                    stlah
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • Ryumon
                      Member
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 1778

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Kokuu
                      That is good to hear! I just received this one (although I have the translation above also) which includes comments by Hakuin and Tenkei:



                      Gassho
                      Kokuu
                      -sattoday/lah-
                      I was not aware of this volume. Looking at samples on Amazon, this seems to contain revised translations from their original Blue Cliff Record, and it looks a lot more readable; I never got on with their original version. It seems they cut a lot to be able to add these commentaries in half the number of pages.

                      Gassho,

                      Ryūmon (Kirk)

                      Sat Lah
                      I know nothing.

                      Comment

                      • Kokuu
                        Treeleaf Priest
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 6837

                        #12
                        I think you are right in your assessment, Ryūmon. I haven't done a direct comparison between them as yet but there must be some cutting in order to both add the commentaries and reduce the page count.

                        Gassho
                        Kokuu
                        -sattoday/lah-

                        Comment

                        • Ryumon
                          Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 1778

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Kokuu
                          I think you are right in your assessment, Ryūmon. I haven't done a direct comparison between them as yet but there must be some cutting in order to both add the commentaries and reduce the page count.

                          Gassho
                          Kokuu
                          -sattoday/lah-
                          I looked at the samples on Amazon, and the latter book explains this briefly. Comparing the translations, you can see that the newer edition is much more readable and feels less "translated." I always found Cleary's translations to be idiosyncratic, but I think I might find this version much better. I shall order it.

                          I also see that David Hinton recently published a version of the BCR. I have too many reservations about his translation style to want to read it. The sample on Amazon.com, not available on Amazon UK, suggests that his style is no different from the rest of his translations, which have always seemed to me too finicky, and too "translationist."



                          Gassho,

                          Ryūmon (Kirk)

                          Sat Lah
                          I know nothing.

                          Comment

                          • Kokuu
                            Treeleaf Priest
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 6837

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ryumon
                            I also see that David Hinton recently published a version of the BCR. I have too many reservations about his translation style to want to read it. The sample on Amazon.com, not available on Amazon UK, suggests that his style is no different from the rest of his translations, which have always seemed to me too finicky, and too "translationist."
                            Hinton doesn't appeal to me either, and I agree with Jundo that he also approaches things through a very Taoist lens. Sometimes this leads to interesting insights, but most often it ends up sidelining Buddhism in favour of his Taoist perspective.

                            He seems like a very capable poet, and I have enjoyed his readings on Chinese poetry, but he is not someone I want to read on Zen.

                            Gassho
                            Kokuu
                            -sattoday/lah-

                            Comment

                            • Ryumon
                              Member
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 1778

                              #15
                              Agreed. His poetry and Daoist translations are very good, but his non-standard translation style is still quite prominent.

                              Gassho,
                              Ryūmon (Kirk)
                              Sat Lah
                              I know nothing.

                              Comment

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