SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (6) - Trusting the Teacher

[Jundo]

We continue with Why Zen Students Fail!


One reason is because they trust the Zen Teachers too much sometimes.


Another reason is because they trust their Teacher not enough sometimes.


Sometimes they are blind to a Teacher's flaws, victims of excess devotion, faith and obedience (yes, it sometimes happens, as described HERE)


Sometimes students expect a Zen Teacher to be flawless, saintly and superhuman, and run away at the first sign of humanity.


Students should realize that the teachers are really just mentors, "friends on the way", folks who have been around the block, guides who have walked the path and can help point out the generally good directions and the dangers and quicksand. Learn from the voice of experience and the wise advice, but in the end, each student must do their own walking.



In all cases, the student should learn to see through the Teacher to the Teaching, seeing this messy world and the Pure Land as One.

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[Mp]

Thank you Jundo ... your uke has got it and trying to roll well. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sat and rolled today

[Getchi]

THankyou Jundo,

Geoff,
SatToday.

[Seido]

This was a nice talk, thank you.

Gassho,
Ken
SatToday

[Jakuden]

Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," but your teachings are interesting, pertinent, and delivered in a manner that my brain can (mostly) process and retain. Many thanks!

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[Jundo]

Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," ...

I try to convince my wife and kids that I am, but they don't believe it either.

Gassho, J

SatToday

PS - By the way, if anyone is extra interested in this topic of flawlessly-flawed teachers, something else I once flawlessly spoke ...

In my view, "master" is someone with some "mastery" in an art or tradition to pass on and pass down ... from carpentry to medicine to martial arts to Zen Buddhary. It need not mean the "master" is perfect, one can be a "master carpenter", yet not every corner will always be smooth; a "master surgeon" cannot cure every patient, and even the most gifted lifesaver of thousands may sometimes make a bad cut or deadly error. However, one should be pretty darn skilled in applying the art in life, and much more skilled and competent than those without the skills required. As in mastery in the martial arts, there is no technique for never being hit or never losing one's footing ... let alone for winning every battle ... there is no training offered on how to never fall, but rather, endless training on how to fall well. Show me the man or woman who encounters life's obstacles, sunny and rainy days, loops and losses, ups and downs ... all the mess and mayhem of Samsara ... who may be sometimes knocked sideways or down ... but who demonstrates how to be hit well and recover one's footing ... and I will show you a great Zen teacher.

One of the unfortunate aspects of religion is the tendency to put the leader or "guru" on a pedestal as being perfect, beyond any and all human failing ... always wise, never saying the wrong thing, always balanced and in control. The Lineage legends and Sutra story books tend to dip in gold and place on pedestals all our long dead ancestors, scrubbing them of every human failing. I think that unfortunate. Plenty of wannabe cult leaders are ready to play to such an image even now ... and plenty of "need a daddy to tell me what to do" students are ever willing to buy into it. That is a shame.

In fact, there are really no "Zen Teachers" ... for Zen cannot be taught. The "Teachers" are more like experienced "Dharma Friends" offering tips and coaching to help the seeker do all the heavy lifting ... and sitting ... on their own.

and a longer essay, superhuman in its expression, on the topic ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?11255-When-Your-Guru-Goes-Bad-by-Brad-Warner&p=107245&viewfull=1#post107245

[Kotei]

Thank you, Jundo.

Good, that you're no superhuman, I don't trust those at all.

Gassho,
Ralf sattoday.

[CK732]

Thank you Jundo this post was very informative and I am happy to know that you are claiming human status and not super human status - that's a tough place to be [emoji3]

Gassho,
Clarisse Sat2Day

[Doshin]

Jundo,

Your words resonated very well for me and helped me put the past in perspective. Also, "not fall too badly"....I like that, it tells me that I have made some progress all these years and not to be too disappointed when I fall again.

Gassho

Randy
sattoday

[Myosha]

Hello,

Good lesson. Thank you.

"To perfection . . . and beyond!!" *


Gassho
Myosha sat today

* Inspiration: Buzz Lightyear - (Infinity is so limiting.^^)

[Kyonin]

Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Meishin]

Thank you, Jundo

Gassho
Meishin
sat today

[Daiyo]

Thank you Jundo

gassho,
Daiyo
Sat Today

[Hoseki]

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho
Sat Today
Adam

[Jakugan]

Thank you for the teaching.

Gassho,

Simon

Sat today