SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (6) - Trusting the Teacher

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 39472

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (6) - Trusting the Teacher



    We continue with Why Zen Students Fail!


    One reason is because they trust the Zen Teachers too much sometimes.


    Another reason is because they trust their Teacher not enough sometimes.


    Sometimes they are blind to a Teacher's flaws, victims of excess devotion, faith and obedience (yes, it sometimes happens, as described HERE)


    Sometimes students expect a Zen Teacher to be flawless, saintly and superhuman, and run away at the first sign of humanity.


    Students should realize that the teachers are really just mentors, "friends on the way", folks who have been around the block, guides who have walked the path and can help point out the generally good directions and the dangers and quicksand. Learn from the voice of experience and the wise advice, but in the end, each student must do their own walking.



    In all cases, the student should learn to see through the Teacher to the Teaching, seeing this messy world and the Pure Land as One.


    THE DOWNLOADABLE AUDIO PODCAST VERSION IS HERE:

    Click for Podcast or Audio Download

    Last edited by Bion; 05-14-2024, 08:55 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Mp

    #2
    Thank you Jundo ... your uke has got it and trying to roll well. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sat and rolled today

    Comment

    • Getchi
      Member
      • May 2015
      • 612

      #3
      THankyou Jundo,

      Geoff,
      SatToday.
      Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

      Comment

      • Seido
        Member
        • May 2015
        • 167

        #4
        This was a nice talk, thank you.

        Gassho,
        Ken
        SatToday
        The strength and beneficence of the soft and yielding.
        Water achieves clarity through stillness.

        Comment

        • Jakuden
          Member
          • Jun 2015
          • 6142

          #5
          Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," but your teachings are interesting, pertinent, and delivered in a manner that my brain can (mostly) process and retain. Many thanks!

          Gassho,
          Sierra
          SatToday

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 39472

            #6
            Originally posted by Sierra529
            Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," ...
            I try to convince my wife and kids that I am, but they don't believe it either.

            Gassho, J

            SatToday

            PS - By the way, if anyone is extra interested in this topic of flawlessly-flawed teachers, something else I once flawlessly spoke ...

            In my view, "master" is someone with some "mastery" in an art or tradition to pass on and pass down ... from carpentry to medicine to martial arts to Zen Buddhary. It need not mean the "master" is perfect, one can be a "master carpenter", yet not every corner will always be smooth; a "master surgeon" cannot cure every patient, and even the most gifted lifesaver of thousands may sometimes make a bad cut or deadly error. However, one should be pretty darn skilled in applying the art in life, and much more skilled and competent than those without the skills required. As in mastery in the martial arts, there is no technique for never being hit or never losing one's footing ... let alone for winning every battle ... there is no training offered on how to never fall, but rather, endless training on how to fall well. Show me the man or woman who encounters life's obstacles, sunny and rainy days, loops and losses, ups and downs ... all the mess and mayhem of Samsara ... who may be sometimes knocked sideways or down ... but who demonstrates how to be hit well and recover one's footing ... and I will show you a great Zen teacher.

            One of the unfortunate aspects of religion is the tendency to put the leader or "guru" on a pedestal as being perfect, beyond any and all human failing ... always wise, never saying the wrong thing, always balanced and in control. The Lineage legends and Sutra story books tend to dip in gold and place on pedestals all our long dead ancestors, scrubbing them of every human failing. I think that unfortunate. Plenty of wannabe cult leaders are ready to play to such an image even now ... and plenty of "need a daddy to tell me what to do" students are ever willing to buy into it. That is a shame.

            In fact, there are really no "Zen Teachers" ... for Zen cannot be taught. The "Teachers" are more like experienced "Dharma Friends" offering tips and coaching to help the seeker do all the heavy lifting ... and sitting ... on their own.
            and a longer essay, superhuman in its expression, on the topic ...

            Apologies if this has already been posted. As usual with Brad, food for thought. ---------------------------------------- An article in the On the Cushion series by the popular Zen teacher Brad Warner. This essay appears in the Summer 2013 edition of Tricycle: The Buddhist Review. Subscriptions to Tricycle for European
            Last edited by Jundo; 08-31-2015, 08:31 AM.
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • Kotei
              Treeleaf Unsui
              • Mar 2015
              • 3989

              #7
              Thank you, Jundo.

              Good, that you're no superhuman, I don't trust those at all.

              Gassho,
              Ralf sattoday.

              義道 冴庭 / Gidō Kotei.
              Being a novice priest doesn't mean my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

              Comment

              • CK732
                Member
                • Aug 2015
                • 252

                #8
                Thank you Jundo this post was very informative and I am happy to know that you are claiming human status and not super human status - that's a tough place to be [emoji3]

                Gassho,
                Clarisse Sat2Day

                Comment

                • Doshin
                  Member
                  • May 2015
                  • 2642

                  #9
                  Jundo,

                  Your words resonated very well for me and helped me put the past in perspective. Also, "not fall too badly"....I like that, it tells me that I have made some progress all these years and not to be too disappointed when I fall again.

                  Gassho

                  Randy
                  sattoday

                  Comment

                  • Myosha
                    Member
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 2974

                    #10
                    Hello,

                    Good lesson. Thank you.

                    "To perfection . . . and beyond!!" *


                    Gassho
                    Myosha sat today

                    * Inspiration: Buzz Lightyear - (Infinity is so limiting.^^)
                    Last edited by Myosha; 08-31-2015, 10:10 PM.
                    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

                    Comment

                    • Kyonin
                      Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 6742

                      #11
                      Thank you Jundo.

                      Gassho,

                      Kyonin
                      #SatToday
                      Hondō Kyōnin
                      奔道 協忍

                      Comment

                      • Meishin
                        Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 805

                        #12
                        Thank you, Jundo

                        Gassho
                        Meishin
                        sat today

                        Comment

                        • Daiyo
                          Member
                          • Jul 2014
                          • 819

                          #13
                          Thank you Jundo

                          gassho,
                          Daiyo
                          Sat Today
                          Gassho,Walter

                          Comment

                          • Hoseki
                            Member
                            • Jun 2015
                            • 657

                            #14
                            Thank you, Jundo.

                            Gassho
                            Sat Today
                            Adam

                            Comment

                            • Jakugan
                              Member
                              • Jan 2013
                              • 303

                              #15
                              Thank you for the teaching.

                              Gassho,

                              Simon

                              Sat today

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