SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (2) - FAIL-NO-FAIL

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40163

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (2) - FAIL-NO-FAIL



    People fail at Zen because they think there is a place to fail. But in fact, THERE IS NO PLACE TO FAIL!

    People fail at Zen because they think there is -no- place to fail. In fact, THERE ARE ENDLESS PLACES TO FAIL!

    The biggest place to fail is to believe that there either is or is not places to fail. Better said, the trap is the failure to know that ONE CAN FAIL YET NOT FAIL AT ONCE!

    There is a certain "Win-Win No Fail" realized thru this Way (well represented by the wide open sky in the picture above) which sweeps in all small human wins and losses. There is truly NO LOSS POSSIBLE, nor anything more in need of gain from the startless start. All is Buddha, and Buddha Can't Fail at being Buddha!

    And yet, in life, we must win some lose some. If you think that you will someday reach a point fully beyond all of life's wins and losses, ups and downs, where the sun will always shine without a day of rain ... well, not in this world, honey! If you over-idealistically think so, you are bound to fail (at least so long as one is a human being, a Bodhisattva, living in this world).

    And if you drop your guard and fail to be diligent (perhaps thinking that it makes no difference because 'Ol Jundo said "there is no place to fail"), well, that is a ticket to failure too! Practice is in every moment and volitional choice. There are endless traps and mud piles to fall into ... exercise care or you will fall off the Lotus, and be up to your neck in the greedy, angry, divisive, selfish, miserable muck!. You are not yet Buddha although on the road there, and not until you make Buddha manifest in how you choose to live and act now. So, while you are already always flawless Buddha, you are simultaneously not yet Buddha and can fail at being Buddha!

    One of the top places where people fail in Zen Practice is the failure to pierce these facts, get them in their bones and live accordingly. They fail to see how all of the above are true at once, as one! They fail to see how two seemingly opposed conclusions .... such as that one can fail and not fail at once ... can be true at once (such Zenny nonlogic is what so many of those old Koans are about).
    The great Fayen Wenyi took the high seat before the midday meal to preach to his assembly. Raising his hand he pointed to the bamboo blinds. Two monks went and rolled them up in the same manner. Fayen said, ‘One gains; one loses.’ ... commented Wumen: Tell me, which one gained? Which one lost? ... But I must warn you most firmly against arguing gain and loss.



    Even older Practitioners can fall into one extreme or the other ... running after a world of "Never Any Fail" too much, or at the other extreme, falling back into being excessively caught by the delusion of this world of success and failure. (Even many Buddhist teachers seem to put too much emphasis on reaching an extreme Buddha-realm by fleeing the ordinary world ... failing to see and teach how both mutually illuminate fully, the same yet not). If you are a long term Practitioner, but fail to get the meaning of what I say here, you have somehow missed something crucial despite all your efforts. You (or what you think of as "you") FAIL!

    Thru this wondrous Path, one can attain a center point where all life's ups are up, the downs just down, a certain wise balance is attained where one avoids the pitfalls and minefields of harmful words, thoughts and acts with great aplomb ... all as one simultaneously knows a way of seeing and being fully transcendent of up/down/win/lose/rain/sun ...

    ... all right amid life's successes and failures, sun and rain, ups and downs.
    THE DOWNLOADABLE AUDIO PODCAST VERSION IS HERE:


    Last edited by Bion; 05-14-2024, 08:53 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Jishin
    Member
    • Oct 2012
    • 4821

    #2
    Hi,

    I think Zen is often described as not One (singularity) and not Two (duality). One can not exist without Two and vice versa. So it's impossible not to fail or not not to fail. This being so, why care if failure is inevitable. Failure is a winning situation if we can accept that it is a part of life. Don't need to get so worked up if things don't work out exactly we want them to.

    Ok. Now what? We have dynamite information that decreases suffering. Failing or not, we still win. Is it fair to keep this information to ourselves?

    NO!

    In order to fulfill our vows of saving sentient beings the above message needs to be propagated by our actions. Our school does this with Shikantaza and other means.

    This is is my take on this topic.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

    PS: Looking for enlightenment or kensho is delusion. But that's just my opinion.

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40163

      #3
      Hi Guys,

      Today's topic is a bit different from saying that failure always has a bright side or is simply a "chance for growth". I will talk about that another time, I promise.

      Today's topic is that there is a Bright Side that transcends human success and failure. Not quite the same. This is growth and no growth, decline or no decline.

      However, I also believe that failure generally has an upside (well, not always. But in most cases). Time for the old Chinese horse story ...

      here is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years.
      One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied.
      The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man.
      The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer.
      The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer.
      And of course, there is always this ...


      Gassho, J

      SatToday
      Last edited by Jundo; 05-29-2015, 05:48 PM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • Getchi
        Member
        • May 2015
        • 612

        #4
        Thankyou Jundo!

        So without One and without Two means without discrimination? Like when it is said that the only mistake is to pit what one likes against what one does not like? So the river that washes away our home exists in a not-one-not-two state and its our own short-sightedness that is the real suffering?

        Im having a great time working out new perspectives (Soto) on familiar themes (theravada) and now I think that i cant fail if I just dont stop. Perhaps we cant fail because theres no ultimate goal and we can fail because we can travel the journey without skillful guidance? Im starting to see the "whole approach" to life I think, if it exists it exists and we just have acknowldege it, everything else is delusion. Talk about attacking the root cause lol!


        Gassho,
        Geoff.


        SatToDay
        Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40163

          #5
          Originally posted by Getchi
          Thankyou Jundo!

          So without One and without Two means without discrimination? Like when it is said that the only mistake is to pit what one likes against what one does not like? So the river that washes away our home exists in a not-one-not-two state and its our own short-sightedness that is the real suffering?

          Im having a great time working out new perspectives (Soto) on familiar themes (theravada) and now I think that i cant fail if I just dont stop. Perhaps we cant fail because theres no ultimate goal and we can fail because we can travel the journey without skillful guidance? Im starting to see the "whole approach" to life I think, if it exists it exists and we just have acknowldege it, everything else is delusion. Talk about attacking the root cause lol!


          Gassho,
          Geoff.


          SatToDay
          Hi Geoff,

          Yes, when we drop human discrimination and thoughts of division (self from other), there is a Just Flowing right as all. We are a River that holds all earthly rivers and deserts and houses. Thus we sit Shikantaza Zazen which, while it may appear to be sitting, is actually Flowing, Flowing, Flowing.

          Something like that, I have already said way too much!

          Now, just sit and find out.

          Gassho, J

          Sat and Flowed Today
          Last edited by Jundo; 05-31-2015, 01:56 AM.
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Getchi
            Member
            • May 2015
            • 612

            #6
            A HUGE thankyou to you Jundo, I will go and sit some more!


            Gassho,
            Geoff.

            AboutToSit
            Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

            Comment

            • Jishin
              Member
              • Oct 2012
              • 4821

              #7
              SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (2) - FAIL-NO-FAIL

              Hi,

              Whenever I am too tired to try to understand something (like now because of traveling all day) but feel that I somehow have to do something about my lack of understanding I cover my ears and mumble form is emptiness and emptiness is form. There. Problem fixed.

              Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 40163

                #8
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40163

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jundo
                  Hi Guys,

                  Today's topic is a bit different from saying that failure always has a bright side or is simply a "chance for growth". I will talk about that another time, I promise.

                  Today's topic is that there is a Bright Side that transcends human success and failure. Not quite the same. This is growth and no growth, decline or no decline.
                  There is another little talk from awhile back that touches on this ...

                  What is the difference between gratitude and Great Gratitude seen in a Buddha's Eye? ... there is a greater, transcendent, boundless Gratitude in the Buddha's Teachings that does not even need the subtle "see the bright side" "find the positive to counter the negative" or "personal pay-off of what's ultimately nice for 'me'" in the above sense of ordinary gratitude. Rather, there's an even Greater "Non-Pay-off" than that! A Jewel so precious, it shines as both earthly jewels and life's thrown bricks and stones in our shoe.
                  gratitude & Great Gratitude
                  This "Buddha quote", however nice it sounds, is not something the Buddha likely said at all (turns out to be from the cheery 70's writer on love, Leo Buscaglia (http://www.fakebuddhaquotes.com/fake-buddha-quote-let-us-rise-up-and-be-thankful-for-if-we-didnt-learn-a-lot-today-at-least-we-learned-a-little/)). Oh, the


                  Gassho, J

                  SatToday
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Jika
                    Member
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 1337

                    #10
                    Thank you, Jundo,

                    for those first two parts.
                    I like this one a lot.

                    Gassho,
                    Danny
                    #sattoday
                    治 Ji
                    花 Ka

                    Comment

                    • Sekishi
                      Treeleaf Priest
                      • Apr 2013
                      • 5671

                      #11
                      Hi all,

                      This talk is now available as a podcast. Either see the link in Jundo's original post, or it should auto-magically appear in your podcatcher if you are subscribed.

                      Gassho,
                      Sekishi
                      #sattoday
                      Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.

                      Comment

                      • Cumminjd
                        Member
                        • May 2013
                        • 183

                        #12
                        Im glad these are in podcast form for download. That was I can take these with me on adventures that may or may not have internet service. Therefore I will always feel connected to our sangha.

                        Gassho
                        James
                        Sattoday

                        Comment

                        • Kyonin
                          Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 6745

                          #13
                          Thank you for this teaching, Jundo.

                          I couldn't totally agree more. For a lot of people zen is difficult because in this path we avoid thinking in absolutes. Some are successful on this, others like me fail.

                          But it all comes down to letting go our own opinions and prejudices and accept life as it is.

                          Gassho,

                          Kyonin
                          #SatToday
                          Hondō Kyōnin
                          奔道 協忍

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40163

                            #14
                            I couldn't totally agree more.
                            Kinda Zen-grammar there, Kyonin! Even me, Mr. "Failnofail", was left scratching-not-scratching my head!

                            Gassho, J

                            SatToday
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Meishin
                              Member
                              • May 2014
                              • 810

                              #15
                              Thank you, Jundo

                              Gassho
                              Meishin
                              Sat today

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