Of Noise, Ear Plugs and Sensory Deprivation Tanks

Does my growling stomach ever chirp in the cacophony?
I am soooo glad to read all of that, Paco!

Gassho
sat lah

Thank you, Bion! No, I have not been able to hear your hunger pangs thus far. Even if they were audible, I doubt I would ever hear them over the din.

It is good to see that I am progressing on the path, well a path that has nowhere to go, but you know.

Gassho,
Paco
sat/lah

[Bion]

An interesting note to add to this, is that every time I have managed to get the time to sit with Bion for his additional Ango sitting, my home has been surrounded by gas-powered leaf blowers, mowers and trimmers. They always begin a few minutes after we start sitting. It reminds me of the blender in Jundo's first beginner series video, except there are usually 3-4 blowers, trimmers and mowers all going at once. Being Autistic, I am very sensitive to noise and I do have noise cancelling headphones I wear when I need to as too much noise can cause me to meltdown a bit if I am not careful. And I have tried sitting zazen with my headphones but I don't like it.

But sitting zazen with Bion and the sangha and the blowers, mowers and trimmers has actually helped my noise sensitivity some to where I notice it but I am not overwhelmed. So, I offer a gassho to the mowers, blowers and trimmers that I used to loathe (still frustrated they exist for environmental reasons) but have come to accept as part of life as it is when I sit.

Gassho,
Paco
sat/lah

Does my growling stomach ever chirp in the cacophony?
I am soooo glad to read all of that, Paco!

Gassho
sat lah

An interesting note to add to this, is that every time I have managed to get the time to sit with Bion for his additional Ango sitting, my home has been surrounded by gas-powered leaf blowers, mowers and trimmers. They always begin a few minutes after we start sitting. It reminds me of the blender in Jundo's first beginner series video, except there are usually 3-4 blowers, trimmers and mowers all going at once. Being Autistic, I am very sensitive to noise and I do have noise cancelling headphones I wear when I need to as too much noise can cause me to meltdown a bit if I am not careful. And I have tried sitting zazen with my headphones but I don't like it.

But sitting zazen with Bion and the sangha and the blowers, mowers and trimmers has actually helped my noise sensitivity some to where I notice it but I am not overwhelmed. So, I offer a gassho to the mowers, blowers and trimmers that I used to loathe (still frustrated they exist for environmental reasons) but have come to accept as part of life as it is when I sit.

Gassho,
Paco
sat/lah

[Green Ben]

Wasn't he the fellow who lived with and gave LSD to dolphins, and thought that he communicated with them via ESP? He was also a little crazed at the edges.

His experiments with using psychedelics in the isolation tank also inspired the Ken Russell film Altered States. I’d say the “crazed” went deeper than just the edges.
still, this quote of his about experiences in the isolation tank is interesting:
“For when it starts feeling like a prison in there – and it usually does for most people – you are confronted with the fact that the bars are of your own making.”

Gassho

stlah

[Jundo]

John C. Lilly, the inventor of the isolation tank, was an interesting dude. His book Simulations of God: The Science of Belief, published in 1975, fell into my lap when I was 17, 13 years later. It wasn't Zen, by any measure, but it was deep thoughts about the nature of how consciousness works from someone who had really stepped back and observed.

gassho

stlah

Wasn't he the fellow who lived with and gave LSD to dolphins, and thought that he communicated with them via ESP? He was also a little crazed at the edges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly

Gassho, J

stlah

[Green Ben]

John C. Lilly, the inventor of the isolation tank, was an interesting dude. His book Simulations of God: The Science of Belief, published in 1975, fell into my lap when I was 17, 13 years later. It wasn't Zen, by any measure, but it was deep thoughts about the nature of how consciousness works from someone who had really stepped back and observed.

gassho

stlah

[Tokan]

Hey all

It's all been said already, so I'll just share my experience today. I managed to create a spot in the day where I thought things would be 'normally' quiet, just the typical background noise of the kids outside, traffic and so on. One minute into sitting and my neighbour comes home playing loud music in his car. Well, it was a nice sunny day, he has a convertible, so why not? For me though, death metal seemed like the last thing I wanted to hear. Due to the fact that I had managed my day to have a nice reasonably quiet 30 minute slot before work, I had to laugh that my unknowing neighbour was doing precisely what I wouldn't want him to do at precisely the moment I wouldn't have wanted him to do it. I noticed that death metal only became death metal in my consciousness when I labelled it as such and so I dropped the label. Death metal can only exist if we hold onto time, it seemed to me, so only the sound was present in each moment, and it also seemed that no one sound could therefore be identified as death metal - or any other genre. He went away after 10-15 minutes and I was not disturbed and reached the end of the zazen. When I bowed at the end I also bowed to my neighbour for his teaching.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Jundo]

Dogen said that we should live and sit Zazen in (relatively, because no perfect silence) quiet places, because quiet helps the heart and mind quiet.

However, ultimately, the true "quiet" is in the heart and mind, not outside. Really, it is neither inside nor outside. So, one should best find the true silence within, not dependent on what is happening around one ... even a battle field. Headphones and white noise may help for awhile, as will sitting in a quiet hut in the forest ...

... but please find the "silence" in Times Square!

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14875-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2821%29

Gassho, J

stlah

[Amelia]

I have found that I am able to sit zazen while listening to white noise. Because it is white noise, there is not really "listening" or focusing on the noise going on-- just as ambient as sitting zazen while a fan is on. (so I don't mean like river sounds or ocean waves, but that can help too if one wants it) It can be really helpful for high-stress environments as it kind of naturally calms me. This is for situations where I need it for high anxiety or noise-triggered stress which can make it impossible for me to sit. I also have a pair of ear plugs that are designed to soften sharp sounds for similar reasons.

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Veronica]

Thanks for this. I struggle with thinking of certain sounds as unpleasant (not sure why), and will keep trying to be accepting of them. For me it's more chewing, yawning, knuckle cracking... But those never seem to be happening during zazen. I guess I need insta-zazen when I notice them.
Veronica
Stlah

[Jacob Janicek]

Hello Jacob,

Good question. There is so much excellent software out there now for guided meditation, or musical meditation, or relaxation, and other things. They may be helpful for you. In fact, I use them sometimes when I am going to bed, to help me fall asleep.

However, listening to anything like that would mean what you are doing is not shikantaza, or zazen at all, but a sort of meditation, which is not what zazen is. Something you are listening to while trying to do shikantaza would mean introducing thinking, when what we want is to let thinking fall away. Even using headphones to listen only to the Zoom zazenkai is probably not the best. I ask my family to just keep it down a little for this period of time. If your quarters are tighter, I understand how it can be a challenge. Maybe sometimes your zazenkai time can be their mother-child date night.

I suspected as much but thought I'd ask just to make sure. Thank you for clarifying.

Gassho
Jacob Jay
Sat today

[Nengei]

I know this is an older thread, but is it ever OK to occasionally use wireless earphones with ambient noise like a river stream or rain or some such?

Hello Jacob,

Good question. There is so much excellent software out there now for guided meditation, or musical meditation, or relaxation, and other things. They may be helpful for you. In fact, I use them sometimes when I am going to bed, to help me fall asleep.

However, listening to anything like that would mean what you are doing is not shikantaza, or zazen at all, but a sort of meditation, which is not what zazen is. Something you are listening to while trying to do shikantaza would mean introducing thinking, when what we want is to let thinking fall away. Even using headphones to listen only to the Zoom zazenkai is probably not the best. I ask my family to just keep it down a little for this period of time. If your quarters are tighter, I understand how it can be a challenge. Maybe sometimes your zazenkai time can be their mother-child date night.

When I was first learning zazen, I sometimes visited a monastery where the baseboard heaters would tick and pop in the winter, and in the summer the windows were open and you could hear insects, animals, and the occasional car, or a person walking by on gravel. I wondered at the time about whether it would be better to block those sounds out, maybe turn on the air conditioner and close the windows. But I learned over time, with continued practice, that sitting with what is, and letting those thoughts fall away, is really the best practice.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

Please forgive any appearance that I am trying to teach anything. I am a priest in training without any depth of knowledge or qualifications for teaching Zen or the Dharma.

[Jacob Janicek]

I know this is an older thread, but is it ever OK to occasionally use wireless earphones with ambient noise like a river stream or rain or some such? I was thinking about doing this just for the weekly zazenkai so as to have a different sort of noise than TV and Ipads that my wife and child use during that time of the day, but I'm not sure if it would be acceptable.
I've been browsing a lot of these beginner threads lately and wasn't sure whether to ask this here or in a new thread.

Gassho,
Jacob Jay
Sat today

[SNPII]

Gassho for this! This is sometimes a challenge for myself as im sure many others!

I love the inner self depravation tank comparison.

Sat2day

In Sincerity
Shane

[Jundo]

...

It was not so when I sat today. Someone was repeatedly tearing some paper right outside the quiet room. It might sound kind of silly but it was loud and unexpected, and bothering me a lot. "This is ruining my zazen" I thought. Then I thought not only "there's no such thing as bad zazen" but I also imagined how ridiculous it would be if I got up and angrily hunted down whoever was doing something so harmless and mundane. After while I just sat with the tearing noise, and then, eventually, I felt like the paper being torn and me sitting there were the same action, the same event, and by extension everything else was the same event; the HVAC, the typing, the streetcar, and so on, just a big jumble of "happening". The idea of being bothered by the noise seemed ridiculous, because it would be like being bothered by sitting.

I'm still very early in my regular sitting practice but I couldn't help but feel a sense of progress. I know I should probably not put any worth in that feeling, but I felt like I had to share to get another opinion. Maybe I'm putting way too much weight on me simply getting used to a sound nearby and not letting it bother me, simply because it all happened while I was sitting.

...

That sounds like a very good insight. Lovely.

Now, next, realize the unusual idea that a key aspect of making "progress" is totally abandoning the need of "some place to get" and just being totally at home here, tearing papers and all. That is really "good progress" to realize so, and truly "getting somewhere!"

And it is even "good Zazen" when the skies are cloudy some days, and one does not have such wondrous insights, as well as when the skies clear and we do!

Yes, we are weird that way.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH