Jundo Tackles the 'BIG' Questions - II (Life's Purpose?)

[Borsuk]

Re: Jundo Tackles the 'BIG' Questions - II

Hi David,

We'll talk about some of what you wrote, and some other 'Big' Questions, next week sometime.

Thank you Jundo. Really very much appreciated. The feedback has been amazing

Paul, I just don't know mate. Sorry! Think asking God is a good idea!

Gassho,
David

[prg5001]

Re: Jundo Tackles the 'BIG' Questions - II

Hi Paul

Hi,

I've got an answer. Nothing to do with zen, nothing to do with how we feel about stuff and no idea if it's right or wrong but I've been waiting to try it out:

According to the mathematician Kurt Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem ...

Hmmm, could be ... Why not? You'd have to ask Gödel and God, I suppose.

Gassho, Jundo

Thanks. Unfortunately, Godel died 30 years ago but I think you are right, I need to run my idea past a theological mathematician or a mathematical theologian.

cheers,

Paul

[cgcumber]

I seem to be making a habit of replying to old, old threads, for which I apologize, albeit without a sense of sorrow -- there's just to much of interest to read, and I'm doing some catching up.

Whenever I hear the word "purpose," I think of a story Alan Watts relates that can be heard on the "Out of Your Mind" lecture series, or be read in his autobiography, about his Zen teacher and father-in-law, Sokei-an:

One evening he was giving a formal lecture on the Sutra of Perfect Awakening, dressed in robes of brown and gold brocade and seated in his chair of estate at a small table-altar with candles and incense. He would pause from time to time, and drop powdered sandalwood or aloeswood on the hot brick of charcoal in the koro, or incense brazier. He came to a passage where the sutra spoke of the importance of living without purpose, and, true to his accent, commented: “In Buddhism pahposeressness is fundamentar’. No pahpose anywhere in rife itser’f. When you drop fart you do not say, ‘At nine o’crock I drop fart.’ It just happen.” The audience, accustomed to Christian decorum on such occasions, stuffed their handkerchiefs in their mouths.

Watts, Alan (2011-02-09). In My Own Way: An Autobiography (pp. 135-136). New World Library. Kindle Edition.

May we all drop many farts.

Gassho!

Cliff

[Jundo]

If I may kinda paraphrase something I said recently on a thread about German Philosophers & Existentialism ...

For me, life is something like being born on a mysterious sailboat sailing on the sea. Through this Practice, one finds that the point is in the sailing, not the destination ... that there are good directions and bad (those that head into storms and onto rocks, those that go with the wind) ... and that water, sun and wind, wheel and mast, storms and clear skies, sails and this 　sailor are each separate, yet each one. Very Existential! Much purpose and aim right in the sailing. (And there are even times to sit on the deck with a good book of German Philosophy ... or just to fart!)

Gassho, J

[cgcumber]

You can never go wrong with a sailing analogy! (Or farting.) Gassho!

[Joryu]

Hmmmm. As I was reading this I stopped a moment to let it all sink in. I noticed my cat sleeping - being nothing but pure cat. Then I realized I could be pure human if I were to let go and immerse into the flow.....just as the cat does. She revels in her pure cat-ness - I should revel in my pure human-ness. Asking no questions, accepting the day, loving the moments, acting when necessary and not acting when not. Kitty seems to have a better understanding of Zen then I do

Yes, I way simplified it.....but that's how it 'struck' me.

[Jundo]

Hmmmm. As I was reading this I stopped a moment to let it all sink in. I noticed my cat sleeping - being nothing but pure cat. Then I realized I could be pure human if I were to let go and immerse into the flow.....just as the cat does. She revels in her pure cat-ness - I should revel in my pure human-ness. Asking no questions, accepting the day, loving the moments, acting when necessary and not acting when not. Kitty seems to have a better understanding of Zen then I do

Yes, I way simplified it.....but that's how it 'struck' me.

Yes, our cat ... Mao Mao with the crooked tail, who came to us after Tin Tin was hit by a car during the winter ... teacher me each day.

Gassho, J

[Byokan]

Thank you for this teaching, Sangha. Here's my $00.02 on Life, the Universe, and Everything:

I believe the nature of this universe is that every thing is contained in every other thing. The pattern repeats on a scale large and small. Like fractals, like Indra’s net, not only are things connected, but everything illuminates everything else, all forms and formlessness are shining into and out of and as each other, ultimately one.

I seem to be here as a biological creature. Thus, it's no coincidence that every little scrap and inkling of truth I have found so far was found by looking to nature. Realizing and manifesting my own nature, I don’t have to chase after truth so much... it manifests as "me", and as the endless flowing. Nothing is hidden.

Anyway, that’s more or less how I see it these days.

Life’s purpose? I dunno. I used to ask “why” a lot. Lately I’m more interested in “how”. Maybe the why is contained in the how. Maybe not. Bottom line is, we’re here, lets make the best of it, eh? My rule: don’t be a jerk, and try to leave every place a little better than you found it.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Onka]

I've always thought that the meaning of life was premised on the idea that humans were for some reason special. In my humble opinion we're pretty f@#king far from special and as number one destroyers of Mother Earth and the only inhabitants of this planet that actively go to war we're certainly not worthy of calling ourselves anything. For me I exist, I consume, I love, I feel, I inhabit a space for a minute amount of time and in that time try to limit my destruction before returning to being a part of life.
I'm a beginner practitioner, not completely familiar with Buddhist terminology or buzzwords so please go gentle on me as I am, despite appearances quite gentle.

Anna.

edited to add - sat today but not for more than 15 minutes.
- lent a hand by driving my partner to a school so she can do volunteer work.

[Amelia]

Anna,

Even through all of the destruction and lack of compassion that the human race is capable of, there is also, always, Buddha-nature. Which means that we all have the capacity to change. I think that's pretty special.

Gassho

Sat today, lah

[Onka]

Anna,

Even through all of the destruction and lack of compassion that the human race is capable of, there is also, always, Buddha-nature. Which means that we all have the capacity to change. I think that's pretty special.

Gassho

Sat today, lah

Thank you for contributing to my learning Geika. And I agree wholeheartedly that change is possible. As an Anarchist I'm an eternal optimist that the human animal has great capacity to live in a world based on freedom and equality. I guess I was unable to communicate what I was trying to say well enough. I think I should have worded things differently and say that to question the meaning of life to me seems a rather arrogant thing to do and again, to me such questions come from a place of privilege. As such I think that exploring privilege is as if not more important than the meaning of life. To me, and once again I am only a beginner practioner, to do so would be to explore the Buddha Dharma.

Gassho, Anna

LAH

[Jundo]

Thank you for contributing to my learning Geika. And I agree wholeheartedly that change is possible. As an Anarchist I'm an eternal optimist that the human animal has great capacity to live in a world based on freedom and equality. I guess I was unable to communicate what I was trying to say well enough. I think I should have worded things differently and say that to question the meaning of life to me seems a rather arrogant thing to do and again, to me such questions come from a place of privilege. As such I think that exploring privilege is as if not more important than the meaning of life. To me, and once again I am only a beginner practioner, to do so would be to explore the Buddha Dharma.

Gassho, Anna

LAH

I would say that Buddhism is traditionally premised on the idea that humans, and human birth, are indeed most special and privileged. Only a human, for example, can truly practice Buddhism, something the animals cannot do. It is implied that the universe is somehow set up to allow us to ... practice Buddhism.

That said, there is also the belief that all things are interconnected, interdependent and all things are special. We are dependent on the birds and grains of sand and water ... and every drop or grain or feather is special and unique. That said, we human beings are still somehow "especially special among the special."

Bro. Brad actually has a pretty good essay about this today (although I think he uses "Emptiness" strangely in the middle of the essay to mean the empty space between matter, when it means that all things are empty of separate existence. Apart from that part, it is interesting. I don't think that it is a standard Buddhist teaching that "we are the universe wanting to become self-aware," but neither is it that foreign to Buddhist teachings either. One might say that Buddhism may imply something like that. The Alan Watts video he mentions at the end is good.)

http://hardcorezen.info/the-four-elements-and-me/6376

Gassho, Jundo

STLah