Mindfull-Non-Mindfull

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40539

    Mindfull-Non-Mindfull

    Mindfull-Non-MIndfull.jpg


    I have been reading a book about a modern Japanese Soto Zen Master who is excellent in arousing in students a profound experience of "mindfulness" and "being in the moment," doing "one thing at one time" without other thought or concern for past and future. One secret he has is to have all the students do every action extra-slowly, to really look at the thing they are seeing as they take their time, and to always keep their mind on their breath. He does so at multi-day retreats at his temple. I am not sure if the Master can induce such experiences in every student who practices at his temple, but he has in at least some, a few of whom together wrote a diary recounting these experiences. Truly, such profound Samadhi concentration, and dropping of thought, is an excellent and vital aspect of our practice sometimes. Our "little self," and all its mental tangles, frictions, judgements and longings, drops away as one devotes one's attention fully to just the moment in front of one. Excellent. In my students too, I hope that sittings of Zazen, undertaking 'Samu' work, Chanting or Bowing or any moment can be so sometimes, for such is a profound and penetrating lesson in "dropping bodymind."

    But I am not going to link to the Japanese Master's book, because I am also going to be a little critical. The students in the book recount such deep mindfulness as arising in 'Sesshin' retreat environments, during which they sit Zazen and engage in temple work tasks for days at a time removed from their worldly lives. However, the Master encourages them to stay such way ALL the time, even after they leave the temple, in their ordinary jobs and relationships with their families. This is where the book is very interesting, because the diaries are very honest about the disaster that happens to several of the students where they suddenly are tying to be "mindful" and "do one thing at one time" in jobs (such as accountant, school teacher) that require frequent "multi-tasking." They try day after day to be free of thoughts and judgements in various worldly tasks that require thought and judgement, and to remain non-attached and in unbroken "Zen mind" all the time (really, all the time) when dealing with the wife and kids (who now find their spouse or father suddenly very detached and strangely numb, too focused on maintaining such mind, almost leading to divorce in one case.) It seems to have driven one of the fellows almost to a nervous breakdown. They cannot always slow down, look intently at everything, always focus just on the breath while being out in the world. They return to the temple, and Sesshin, to try to get better at being mindful, feeling that the problem was just their weakness of mind and poor ability as Zen students and that they have somehow failed. I feel that this is an example of trying to be TOO mindful!

    I blame the teacher, and an overly idealized and romantic, life-depriving view of Zen practice which wrongly emphasizes our needing to be in "Zen Mind," Samadhi and states of being "mindful" all the time ... timeless 24/7/365. I feel that such a view is not only not necessary, it misses one of the great lessons of the Soto Zen path.

    Better, there are times to be "mindful" and in profound concentration, doing one thing in the moment ... and there are times just to be multi-tasking, thinking and judging, killing time, being silly or lazy, being a worker, a spouse and father, dealing with life's big and little problems and frictions, being ordinary and human.

    However, even while "being ordinary and human," up to one's neck in the muck, one can also be free.

    It is a little tricky to explain but is something like sometimes "multi-tasking" and being bound by the clock, while also having a subtle presence in one's heart of the timeless, the "nothing in need of attaining" of Zazen ... all at once, as if not two. One can know both at once, as if experiencing life simultaneously with goals and absolutely no goals at once, in the same instant. Sometimes the "one thing to do" is just this mess in front of us. When needing to "Multi-task" and madly rush with deadlines pending ... JUST MULTI-TASK AND MADLY RUSH as the "one things" to do in that moment.

    Also, we have times of need to think through things, are confused or torn on choices sometimes, have opinions, ordinary likes and dislikes, feel very human frictions, fears and disappointments sometimes when life demands. We might be a spouse and parent, with all the joys and troubles that sometimes involves.

    However, while doing so, also know the "dropping of all opinions, likes and dislikes" deep in the bones, the Clarity which illuminates all choices and confusion, even as one has opinions, aversions and attractions. One can know both ways of encountering life in the same instant. Hold those opinions and preferences lightly, do not cling, even as one has them. Likewise, sometimes feel perfectly normal frictions, fears and disappointments when life gets hard and scary sometimes, but also simultaneously know the other "faceless face" of Buddhist wisdom where there are no "two" to conflict, no need to fear, something which cannot be lost. Laugh and smile, cry and embrace tenderly those one loves ... even as one also knows a certain stillness and quiet in one's heart, free of clinging. Then there may be big problems in life to deal with, but all no problem too.

    One can be Buddha and an "ordinary Joe" all at once, timelessly in any moment, rather than trying artificially to be "All Buddha All the Time." One can then live, fully engaged in this life, experiencing a life in this world ... but not trapped by the world. One is then "All Buddha in All of Life."

    There is no need to "be in the moment every moment." That is a wonderful practice SOMETIMES, when, for example, we just drink tea when drinking tea, just see the flower when seeing the flowing, just sweep when sweeping. A removed temple life and "sesshin" can be such a retreat from life.

    However, more powerful for life in the world is to "just let every moment be that moment," and accept it all. Sometimes drink tea while surfing online and thinking about your taxes and news of the election, worried about your sick kid. This is to be a modern human being. However, even as you do so, keep your heart simple, your thoughts and emotions untangled. As you do so, sense in your bones the Illumination ... beyond all divisions, choices, frictions, losses or gains, comings and goings ... which shines timelessly through this world even while we are up to our necks in it.

    "Mind Full" or "mindful"? Sometimes more one, sometimes the other. But it need not be either/or.

    One can learn the shining Illumination of being both at once!
    .





    Gassho, J
    stlah
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-16-2024, 12:45 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Antonio
    Member
    • Mar 2024
    • 156

    #2
    This is an article that worth to read. Often, people tend to complicate the things and forget that the life is here to be lived, It is not necessary to overthink about it.Thanks for the teachings.

    Gassho!
    SatLah

    Antonio
    Antonio

    If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” - Linji Yixuan​​

    Comment

    • Bion
      Senior Priest-in-Training
      • Aug 2020
      • 4712

      #3
      Balance is such a delicate thing. Takes much mindfulness to reach it
      I remember a friend telling a story about his days training in Japan in the monastery. From the first day he was told whatever he did for a while he should use both hands to do it. Open a door with both hands, grab a cup with both hands, hold everything with two hands. Proved to be a great exercise for him as he tells the story, and shines a light on how easily we drift away from this very moment. There are times to be single-mindedly attentive and times to be multitasking, obviously. I remember seeing some videos from Thich Nhat Hanh's Plum Village and seeing people "mindful eat" and I thought it was the most awkward thing.. chewing in slow motion, staring at the food.... Thay had a gentle way about him, and I truly think his very mindful way was a natural manifestation of his daily practice. Forcing it though, might not produce the best results.

      Gassho
      sat lah
      "Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi

      Comment

      • John MacBrayne
        Member
        • Aug 2024
        • 75

        #4
        Originally posted by Bion
        Balance is such a delicate thing. Takes much mindfulness to reach it
        I remember a friend telling a story about his days training in Japan in the monastery. From the first day he was told whatever he did for a while he should use both hands to do it. Open a door with both hands, grab a cup with both hands, hold everything with two hands. Proved to be a great exercise for him as he tells the story, and shines a light on how easily we drift away from this very moment. There are times to be single-mindedly attentive and times to be multitasking, obviously. I remember seeing some videos from Thich Nhat Hanh's Plum Village and seeing people "mindful eat" and I thought it was the most awkward thing.. chewing in slow motion, staring at the food.... Thay had a gentle way about him, and I truly think his very mindful way was a natural manifestation of his daily practice. Forcing it though, might not produce the best results.

        Gassho
        sat lah
        Very interesting, I might try the two hand thing. Simple but effective I think.
        Gassho
        J
        Satlah

        “How can we ever lose interest in life? Spring has come again
        And cherry trees bloom in the mountains.”
        ― Ryokan​

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40539

          #5
          Originally posted by John MacBrayne

          Very interesting, I might try the two hand thing. Simple but effective I think.
          Gassho
          J
          Satlah
          Yes, do that. But mostly open the door with one hand.

          And, even better, always open with no hands the door which cannot be open or closed.

          Gassho, J
          stlah
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • MarkusF
            Member
            • Jul 2024
            • 27

            #6
            No dharma is permanent.
            No dharma is lost or not available.

            Do one and not let the other undone.
            Relative truth and absolute truth is simultan.

            So Zen is the art of beeing and living in a dissociative identity (dis)order by switching or have it simultan XD XD XD

            Comment

            • Matt Johnson
              Member
              • Jun 2024
              • 423

              #7
              Originally posted by MarkusF
              No dharma is permanent.
              No dharma is lost or not available.

              Do one and not let the other undone.
              Relative truth and absolute truth is simultan.

              So Zen is the art of beeing and living in a dissociative identity (dis)order by switching or have it simultan XD XD XD
              Actually Marcus you bring something up for me when you say "dissociation" (as in DIS or DID). When we hear certain teachers talk about being mindful and being able to view our emotions from a distance which gives us time to change our reactions. Or if we hear stories of people who feel they are processing old trauma during their periods of Zazen. Or simply sitting through painful sensations during our time on the cushion. The idea occurred to a while ago that meditation allows us to learn how to deliberately dissociate.

              Dissociation has actually been referred to as the minds protective mechanism during periods of intense trauma. This can occur both through dissociating from the body during intense physical pain or dissociating sections of the mind, a phenomena called compartmentalization.

              But in many cases this dissociation as a result of trauma is out of our control. We end up dissociating in the grocery store or while we're driving, we end up getting triggered which is the emotional component. We have repressed emotion which causes us to do things that we don't really remember or can't really control.

              By doing zazen and being mindful we can actually learn how to dissociate by associating (perhaps identifying is a better word). Obviously taking this to extreme out in the world is problematic which is why the compassion of monasticism or extended retreat environments is necessary for some.

              That being said, in many monasteries many of the duties need to be done in a certain amount of time (many of them occurring at a dead run). But it should be obvious that being mindful has nothing to do with speed.

              At Sogenji the zendo toilets were old style outhouses which had to be emptied manually. By manually I mean with large ladles emptied into buckets which hang at either ends of a stick and that stick carried to a part of the forest and dumped into a hole, maggots and all. I can assure you this was done only as mindfully as was necessary not to spill the sewage on yourself and nobody was doing it slowly and deliberately with both hands if you catch my drift.

              However slowing down can help break down certain actions and help us do them better and more efficiently for example, in Tai Chi things are done very slowly but in theory they can be sped up and be used for self-defense. Slowing down can also help us by taking things in manageable bites if we have a propensity to catastrophize for example.

              The way I look at it, if I find any measure of peace in my Zazen. If when I sit for long enough during a retreat the thoughts eventually settle and sometimes cease. I have a memory that this peace is always there but it's just obscured and knowing this helps me get through difficult situations in my daily life.

              _/\_
              sat/ah
              matt

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 40539

                #8
                Originally posted by MarkusF
                No dharma is permanent.
                No dharma is lost or not available.

                Do one and not let the other undone.
                Relative truth and absolute truth is simultan.

                So Zen is the art of beeing and living in a dissociative identity (dis)order by switching or have it simultan XD XD XD
                Markus, speaking of "dissociative identity," you have been a Sangha member for awhile. I think that I asked you previously to post an human face photo, to sign your name as "SatToday/LAH"

                Would you do that for me? It helps keep us human, and focused on practice. Thank you.

                Gassho, Jundo
                stlah
                Last edited by Jundo; 10-15-2024, 12:06 PM.
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • John MacBrayne
                  Member
                  • Aug 2024
                  • 75

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jundo

                  Yes, do that. But mostly open the door with one hand.

                  And, even better, always open with no hands the door which cannot be open or closed.

                  Gassho, J
                  stlah
                  that’s going straight in my notebook
                  Gassho
                  J
                  sat/lah

                  “How can we ever lose interest in life? Spring has come again
                  And cherry trees bloom in the mountains.”
                  ― Ryokan​

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 40539

                    #10
                    PS - MarkusF, would you email me please. jundotreeleaf[a]gmail

                    Thank you.

                    Gassho, Jundo
                    stlah
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • mdonnoe
                      Member
                      • Feb 2024
                      • 238

                      #11
                      Jundo,

                      I love your reflection, analysis and teaching here! The metaphor that comes to mind for me as I read your essay this morning is of the skillful use of the kyosaku by the Roshi in the zendo: one person receives the "strike," but everyone gets to "wake up a little" in the zendo as a result.

                      I was invited recently to join a friend at his home for meditation with his yoga friends. One in the group had just received their "mindfulness teacher certificate" and wanted to practice their skills on a group. The guided practice was much the same as you just described. Afterwards, my friend asked me to compare the experience to what we do here (at Treeleaf, and in shikantaza / zen practice generally). I was very gentle in my comparison, but invited those interested to sit here with us sometime, to see what zen is all about.

                      Gassho,

                      Michael
                      SatLah

                      Comment

                      • Meishin
                        Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 824

                        #12
                        I spent years beating myself up because I could not be "more mindful." In old age, it's been a gift to realize that it's all the same -- mindfulness and multitasking. The clouds arise and they drift by, just don't hitch rides, they say. This is old stuff, this teaching, and for numbskulls like me it can take a long time to learn. Then again, I'll probably unlearn it again this afternoon.

                        Gassho
                        Meishin
                        stlah

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40539

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Meishin
                          I spent years beating myself up because I could not be "more mindful." In old age, it's been a gift to realize that it's all the same -- mindfulness and multitasking. The clouds arise and they drift by, just don't hitch rides, they say. This is old stuff, this teaching, and for numbskulls like me it can take a long time to learn. Then again, I'll probably unlearn it again this afternoon.

                          Gassho
                          Meishin
                          stlah
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40539

                            #14
                            I changed the title of the essay, and the artwork. The message is the same.
                            . Mindfull-Non-MIndfull.jpg

                            Gassho, J
                            stlah
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Jundo
                              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 40539

                              #15
                              Also, apologies to MarkusF. It looks like I accidently, momentarily "banned" him by pressing the wrong button. It is fixed now.

                              I guess that I was not being mindful enough!

                              Gassho, Jundo
                              stlah
                              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                              Comment

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